Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Kinda glad I found this site.......

I think Esshup is right on the money, GSH may spawn only once a year, but if conditions are right they may pull off additional spawns - this is what I found online regarding the subject - but bear in mind everyone's ponds are different, and all will have varying answers to questions like this. As the experts on the forum always tend to say to any question - "IT ALL DEPENDS!!!"

Golden Shiner (Notemigonus cystoleucas)
This description of the Golden Shiner was submitted by Doug Saball
This is a well know species that is easily identified. Key characteristics are the strongly compressed rather elliptical body, a small pointed head, strongly downward curving lateral ling, a long sickle-shaped anal fin, and a thin scaleless keel on the midline of the belly behind the pelvic fins. The coloration is a dark olive-green on the back, becoming a golden-silver on the sides. With large adults a deep golden or brassy coloration is prominent. The fins are yellowish with the lower fins turning orange on breading males. Young golden shiners have a distinctive broad dark lateral band, more silvery than gold body, and their fins are transparent. (1,2)

Distribution: On the east coast of North America from the Maritime Provinces south to Florida and west to the Dakotas and Texas. Because of its wide use as bait, it has been introduced into many parts of the western United States to which it is not native. (2)


Habitat: The golden shiner is found in the quiet waters of lakes, ponds and sluggish rivers and streams. They prefer areas with thick vegetation and muddy bottoms. The golden shiner is usually found with such species as the chain pickerel, brown bullheads, yellow perch, and largemouth bass. (1,2)

Reproduction: The golden shiner spawns in late spring and summer. It scatters its adhesive eggs over submerged vegetative beds in quiet waters. Females are known to produce as much as 200,000 eggs in a season. The spawning season may last for the whole summer with several spawns throughout the season. Usually the first spawn is the largest. But this is dependent on specific areas, weather and water conditions. (1,2)

Age and Growth: The golden shiner reaches a maximum length of about 12 inches, however, some specimens have been collected that reach as large as 15 inches. (3) Typical adult golden shiners are 4 to 7 inches. It is a rapid grower usually reaching 2 to 3 inches in one year. However, in colder regions the golden shiner reaches maturity in its third summer, and may only be 3 inches. (1,2)

Food: The golden shiner eats an extremely diverse assortment of food. Its long fine gill rakes, long intestine, and strong grinding pharyngeal teeth equip it for feeding on all types of foods. It can strain microorganisms, digest cellulose-containing plants, and crush small mollusks. It eats alga, plant fragments, water fleas, insect larva, snails, clams, and occasionally small fish. (1)

Remarks: This species is primarily valuable as a forage food for game fish. Because it reproduces rapidly in ponds and its food consists largely of vegetation, it has often been stocked extensively as a forage fish. The golden shiner is one of the more commonly used baitfish in New England primarily because of its availability and silvery appearance. However, the golden shiner is difficult to keep alive in a bait bucket or on a hook. It is used locally to some degree as a "sewn-on shiner" in trolling for lake trout and salmon. (1)

Common Names: Golden shiner, roach, bream, butterfish, eastern golden shiner, American roach, American bream, sunfish, dace, bitterhead, chub, gudgeon, young shad, windfish, and goldfish. (2)

GSH are fractional spawners. They don't lay their eggs all at once but rather lay their eggs over a period of time. It is not quite as spread out as some species like FHM but they will lay in my area from early May to early July. I have found gravid females into August. I think they are late maturing females.

All the fyke nets I found for sale online were not too huge, usually 3' X 4'. I will readily admit I'm wrong if shown data of an instance in which such a net was successfully used to reclaim a pond overrun with crappie, but I just can't imagine it would be possible. One good crappie spawn can produce tiny crappie so numerous that there are literally tens of thousands of them in the pond; witness the thread on here somewhere referencing a pond Bob Lusk worked on that had "tons" of 4" crappie that were seven years old. Probably that pond was bigger than the one being discussed in this thread, but my point is, even a quarter ton of 4" crappie is an awful lot of crappie, and would take an awful lot of passes with a 3'X4' net to harvest. And that's also assuming that all or most of the crappie agree to swim right into the net, which I don't think could be assumed.

One other point: if Basf harvests enough LMB to provide better growth for the remaining bass, and doesn't at the same time stock some other predator, he's one good crappie spawn away from having a pond full of 4" crappie, and it's a matter of when and not if. Whereas if he stocks an esocid to thin the bass, they'll do so while at the same time keeping the crappie from overpopulating, for the dual reasons that they are cooler-water fish than the bass and will feed on crappie better at the time of the spawn, and they can eat larger crappie than the bass can.

If he has 100 pounds of predators right now (and it's not at all an inescapable law of nature that that exact poundage occurs per acre every time), probably it consists of well over a hundred bass that average under a pound each. If he had forty pounds of his alloted predator quotient taken up by tiger muskie, I'd wager a lot of money that the other sixty pounds would consist of LMB that averaged two pounds or better, with several specimens going from three to six pounds, and a couple in the eight- to ten-pound range. I personally would rather catch one six-pound bass than a hundred pounders. But that's just me.

You don't take passes with fyke nets... They are stationary, sitting in one place. The fish swim into them on their own. Fyke nets are HIGHLY efficient at capturing almost all species of fish. In a smaller pond, they are highly efficient at removing fish.

I am not saying there is a right way or a wrong way. However, the use of a fyke net is very controllable and the outcome usually consistent. The use of NP or TM is not nearly as controllable and the outcome not nearly as consistent. Check out the link I posted reference the use of fyke net by Chris Steelman and tell me they aren't efficient at capturing 3"-4" stunted fish, whether they be GSF or crappie.

However, fyke nets are not cheap. But once you have one, it can be used for years. It can also be used as a great tool to do annual surveys on your pond to see how your fish are doing.

I did follow the link to Chris Steelman's use of one; he had a few dozen GSF in a pail. It would take several hundred pails'-full to make a difference in a pond overrun with crappie.

I was thinking that probably the net is used as you mention, i.e. placed so that the fish swim into it. I could be wrong, but from my experience in fishing ponds/small lakes that have been overrun with tiny crappie, they generally fill the entire lake or pond, and I have a hard time imagining they're all going to swim right to that one very small area to facilitate their own capture.

I had very similar results in the two-acre pond that I stocked pike into, to what Dwight has in his ten-acre pond that has northern pike and has as long as he has owned it: very big bass and bluegill both, with no detrimental effects to either species. From Pond Boss:

http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/walleye-bass-perch.html


EDIT: Chris Steelman's (Young Blood) efforts caught over 700 GSF/HBG. He felt, as his name was referenced, that the record should be clear.

Walt, this is not a competition of ideas. It is simply a place to share them. There isn't a need to try to disprove my idea. My idea is just that, an idea. I am not saying it is better than stocking TM or NP. There are numerous ways to manage a pond. You don't need to try to disprove everyone else's ideas so yours shine.

That's about enough.

This thread is about helping the original poster w/ his/her problems.

I say again, being a member here is a priveledge, not a right.

Don't force the hand. You won't like the results.

Hi again! I have decided to quit raising pumpkins in a 1.5 acre plot and dig another pond. Knowing the before mentioned problem with my 1st pond, do you have any opinions on if or how this new pond could help support pond 1? It will be close to 2/3 acre in size. Thank you in advance!

Most guys who have two ponds like to use different fish communities that are not capable of all living together, but when separated into two different ponds do well. An example, RES, SMB and YP in one pond. BG, RES, LMB and CC in another...

Since you already have your first pond stocked, you may consider using your new pond to grow forage to supplementally stock into your larger pond. Say, stock your 2/3 acre pond with GSH, FHM and BG. Seine it a few times a year always leaving a few fish behind to repopulate. Just a few ideas, I am far from an expert though... Perhaps other can weigh in with their ideas.

Do these two examples require a different bottom contour, structure or depths? The main reason for this project is to give this area a finished look without mowing my life away. I'm like Sgt. Schultz, I know nothing, nooothing, about proper pond options. Can I get a crash course from you good folks on thoughts and concerns? I would like to get started in approx. 2 weeks because it's a good time to seed and fill.

I bought a Texas Hunter feeder for pond 1 and have removed a few LMB. I'm trying to catch some crappies with a mepp's spinner and having zero luck.