Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Gams ate my roseys

I was at pet smart and bought some rosey fatheads and my gams ate them with in a few min. I am not sure any made it. They would chase them around and keep pecking at them until they were dead. The little 3" BG even were chaseing them. I was just alittle suprised. There are no preditors in this pond yet so I thought they might be fun to look at until next spring, when I put in some sort of bass. Have not completly decide yet on lmb or hsb. I would like a few lmb and more hsb to keep and eat. I am not sure that would work long term. Those little gams are quite the preditor in its own right.

That's the exact reason I decided against them. I'll keep my golden shiners, thank you. They are reputed to also gang up on other fish's fry and fingerlings and kill them.

just returned from a nice evening fish feeding and watched my gams wrastle with pellets too big for them, and they dont give up!

john and burger yer two posts just hit me upside the head!! i'm probably discovering the wheel for myself and the concept is old hat to you guys but has anyone here ever contemplated or described how a large gam population might contribute or detract from growing large lepomis if that is ones objectives?

from a forage point of view its simple, they provide a nice forage link in the food chain, but also wouldnt the hordes of hungry gams also remove a huge percent of lepomis fry......its strikes me as a viable form of mgmt coming from both directions 1) to limit overpopulating by bottom up predation, and 2) provide top down forage....

i have alot of gams. i've yet to see any significant "schools" of lepomis fry and mine have been spawning or attempting to spawn since may.......and......the growth rates in my adult lepomis are crazy.

edited post.....and john, sorry in advance if this constitutes a hijack...i'll say a lil prayer for the rosies

DIED, I think you hit the nail on the head. In your case it's probably just what the doctor ordered. It seems to be working well for you. I would be interested in occasional updates as to gam and small lepomis populations. Of course supported by pics of fat greenies and redears.

The biggest source of predation of fry/small yoy BG are 3-5in BG , PS and LMB were distant consumers by %. In other studies GSF were in the mix with PS and LMB and shiners.

i'm sorry if i missed one of yer archival or otherwise informational posts on the subject ewest, but were gams (in significant numbers) present in those studies?

Although 3-5" BG may be the biggest predator of their own young, in the absence of other predators, they obviously fail to control the overall BG population as evidenced by the thousands of ponds across the country exhibiting stunted populations.

i guess my question is (theoretically) could gams tip the balance to a healthy and fat BG population without using say LMB as a top down predator?

edited post....i should qualify the question as related to "small waters (1 acre or less)" as big pond dynamics would be much different.

DIED, I nont think the gams are efficient at controlling BG, but they will gang up and just kill larger fish than themselves. Your scenario will be interesting to track.

RE: Jon G's thread starter, everything gets after roseys. I have seen small turtles chase them practically to death. Too slow, too dumb. Perfect pond starter.

DIED the study captured everything in the area of the BG beds thought to prey on BG fry and tested stomach contents. They made no mention of gams or minnows (other than shiners) and so I assume they were not able to prey on BG fry due to male BG nest guarding. That was one of the factors measured also. Gams would be brave indeed if they went into a colonial nest site and crossed the collective male BG , each many times there size when those male BG often see the gams as food. No doubt that there may be some small period of time after BG fry swim up and leave the nest (no male protection) and before the yoy are big enough to fend where gams may eat some and kill others. However in most pond situations the usual BG #s would dwarf the gams #s. Further much of the gams noted attack behavior is based on territorial nature and not on feeding and most noted effects are on minnows and inverts. competing for the same space. I will check some more and see what I find on gam effects on BG yoy.

John G., interesting observation. I have Gams and Rosy's in the same 150 gal rubbermaid, along with a lone 8 & 1/2" RES (male). The smallesh rosies disappear here and ther' ther' but I'm assuming Mr. Gordo (RES) has taken a liking to 'em. Twice I've noticed rosies trapped in the little green nets and he promptly kills 'em thru the netting and eats 'em. If I pinch the tails of either the rosies or the gams; Mr. Gordo notices and inhales 'em. I have roughly 8 out of 80 rosy FH left compared to 44 out of 48 Gams. The rosies are inhibited but will peck my hand noticeably. The Gams swim to my hand more readily yet nible quite gently. At feeding times, they push aside the rosies who hang in there and manage to feed as well. The 3" rosy males briefly chase the Gams from their perceived terriority. Haven't noticed any rosy reproduction yet the gams spit out live birth pretty regular. Only a few baby Gams have made it, I'm guessing the RES eats 'em. I too think the Gams will benefit a BG or RES pond from ?bottom up thinning of some fry. Also, the Gams seem to startle swimmers to a lesser extent!

SoSauty,

I think cover is the wild card. With no cover, you have an unnatural situation where all fry are super vulnerable to predation and cannibalism. With enough cover, fry of all species can grow to a "safer" size in greater numbers, and attain a more natural balance.

another part of my equation is a dropping water level. there's pretty thick weed cover around the pond edges even as the water level drops. the gams are everywhere. my thought is that as the water drops BG/GSF/RES recruitment will be adversely affected, those that do hatch will be ready prey for the gams as they seek the weed cover, i may have an interesting unintended BG control technique that wont really require a top end predator.