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03:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147 |
still pondering what predators to put in my 1/3 acre pond.I sure like those smallies..Anyone have any luck with them this far south? I know they do ok in lake texoma.I wonder if they get as hook-shy as LMB? Leaning toward HSB right now,but everone likes a 2 car garage, right ? 
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587 |
Howard -- I think the smallmouths are doing pretty darn well in Lake Meredith, aren't they? Not trying to talk you into anything, as the HSB are also a lot of fun. Hopefully, you'll get some southern responses.
Subscribe to Pond Boss MagazineFrom Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,074
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Howard, if I had a passion for SMB as you do, I would consider stocking them as a �put and take� fishery, the same as HSB.
I would not be concerned with spawning structure or reproduction, but would be concerned about stocking large enough to avoid LMB predation, if or when may be present.
I personally prefer HSB in small ponds, but SMB could be an interesting companion species.
After initial stocking you could implement a limited annual stocking program to replace fish loss due to harvesting or mortality.
Good luck.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 764
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 764 |
howard, I think there is great potential for using nonbreeding fish in small lakes. The harder thing to do is to manage some type of forage. The easiest type of forage is pelleted food. In my experience, both HSB and SMB take to pelleted food easily.
Norm Kopecky
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Lunker
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Lunker
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Posts: 147 |
HSB are pretty easy to find around here, but female only SMB could be pretty hard. I think maybe I'll start looking. I'm already feeding the BG, so supplementing the predators would not be a big deal.My pond is a very isolated watershed, so i don't think LMB could ever get in. Lot's to think about
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,074
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Originally posted by howard:
HSB are pretty easy to find around here, but female only SMB could be pretty hard. Howard, why would you worry about female only SMB? They likely will not spawn in a small pond without a lot of work, worry, and expense building spawning habitat?
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147 |
George,
I was not aware that they would not spawn in a small pond. That would certainly simplify things,not having to worry about that.
Does anyone have any experience with the catchability issue with SMB in a small pond?
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014  Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483 |
Guys the data and info provide that SMB spawn and reproduce offspring ok in ponds as long as LMB are not in the mix. SMB do not produce as many yoy as LMB and do not compete well with them in ponds. There are several threads here wrt that and Bill and I are working on an article for PB on the subject.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147 |
Eric,
Any thoughts on how they would compete with the HSB? I would think some success in SMB spawning would be ok, even desired. I just wouldn't want them to be so successful, to the point of stunting and overrunning the pond.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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IMO every pond requires management to do well. SMB will be less likely to stunt than LMB. There is much left to learn about SMB in southern ponds. In fact we know very little WRT SMB in southern ponds. IIRC Dave has said that SMB and YP will stunt in some circumstances (unmanaged) in northern ponds but not nearly to the degree or as easily as BG and LMB. I think SMB and HSB with BG and FH would be a great idea in a southern pond with good water quality. I would sure like to know how it works. You might end up with a pond that has good SMB and HSB fishing and trophy BG.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,074
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For sure they wouldn�t spawn in our ponds without extensive renovation with $$$$$ worth of gravel and boulders. A short cast away from Howard�s pond are numerous smallies in Lake Texoma that spawn in rock and gravel beds. I�ve caught too many of them from that habitat to ever consider spawning them in any N. Texas ponds without extensive renovation. There are many gravel and conglomerate depositional areas in the Texoma area, but I guarantee Howard�s pond are not so located - they don�t hold water well, if at all.  
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 147 |
One other concern i have for both HSB and SMB..And that is, will the water get too hot in the summer in my 1/3 acre pond for them to do well? I do plan on installing aeration. beautifull fish george!!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,074
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Howard, my preference for HSB as the primary predator fish in small Texas farm ponds is well known.
In our 2 acre pond, I have never seen a dead HSB in spite of three record breaking high temperature, drought ridden sumuuers.
We do have a �state of art� aeration system.
Not so lucky in our � acre �grow-out� pond, but appears survival rate to be in the 50% range, with no aeration.
We may not continue to be so fortunate.
The record breaking rains that are being reported are missing us and our main pond has not �flushed� in more than three years and � acre pond has never filled.
Don�t know how long fish can live in fish poop. A fish kill will be devastating, but not a surprise if we don�t get enough rain to reach spillway depth before hot summer weather.
We�ve had the worse explosion of FA ever this year, and hopefully tilapia stocked last Sunday will control.
�It all depends�
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Joined: May 2004
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Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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I found some, ewest: SMB/RES Pond Concept SMB in 3 acre pond SMB Temperature Tolerance SMB/YP/BG SMB in a Farm Pond I also have a couple of sourceless snippets of SMB spawning wisdom saved: This is from a link IIRC you provided showing SMB nest construction (if you haven't included that thread above, it would be useful): Near the 3 ft mark (or as deep as you can with out a swim) level out a spot about the size of a car tire. Then put some marble to fist size rocks in the bottom. Then arrange around the edge of the area about 3 of those big rocks in a semi-circle with the open side toward deep water. Find a piece of log and lay it near (w/in 4 ft) of the bed and put a few rocks on it to hold it down (or tie it down). and this is Professor Cody on SMB nest construction (from Brettski's plastic outer space invader structure thread): Larger gravel does not absolutely have to be round edged, although I prefer round edged gravel for bass spawning. I am not sure that the bass care. Two local ponds have golf ball sized crushed limestones ("1"-3" pieces) lining the bank and crushed fine limestone (1/8"-1/4") on the beach area. SMB in these two ponds routinely have hatches each year. The benefit to round river gravel is that it may stay cleaner with less attached algae growths than the limestones. But when the bass gets to cleaning the nest most loose debris gets brushed away.
More important than the shape or surface texture of the coarse gravel for bass (SMB) spawning, is to locate some sort of piece of structure adjacent to the nest such as a log, small cinder block wall, large boulder. Studies have shown that at least SMB prefer some sort of structure adjacent to the nest site. It is thought that the structure makes it easier for the bass to defend the nest against intruders. Defending two or three sides of a nest is easier (more successful) than defending a compeltely open nest that is vulnerable to 360 degree attack.
Britt - I am not sure that it was necessary to go to the extra work of putting the legs on the saucers. I think it is a good idea of using saucers since bass seem to create nest fairly distant from one another. I think the saucers would work just as well placed right on the dirt bottom. If one thinks the saucer needs to be leveled & raised off the bottom to keep it slightly less mucky then why not just lay the saucer on a used "recycled" large car tire that has been leveled onto a "step" or flat spot cut into the pond bottom. Tire will hold saucer off bottom and weight of gravel will hold saucer in the cavity of the tire. If you want the saucer higher off the bottom stack two tires and then place the saucer on top filled with gravel.
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever." -S. M. Stirling ![[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ed/b5/e7/edb5e7f935843b996cf52be593c9ebd2--smoothie-smooth-collie.jpg)
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