Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Have pond...have leak...need ideas

I thought I would look around the net for some friendly and more knowledgeable advice, 'cause frankly I don't know what I am doing - think I found the right place.

The pond itself is about an acre, and is about 23 years old. It sits adjacent to a creek that the leak is draining into. I suspect the pond was much deeper years ago, but it has tons of sediment build and in most places is only a few feet deep before you hit boot eating muck of depth yet to be determined. I also know that a former owner trying to thwart muskrats decided to sink some metal siding into the bank between the pond and the creek. Odd thing though is that they bent it into a trough shape which only extends about three feet down - not really effective.

That is about all I know about its history, we didn't come on the scene until recently. The leak was much smaller and well hidden last year, but with this early spring weather and ice melt it has made itself abundantly obvious. With springs rains approaching it either needs some sort of temp fix or it is, I fear, going to create its own spillway through the damn and completely drain the pond.

The leak has the appearance of maybe a tree root that died forming the initial hole, but with overflow has created a much larger hole above - both of which run down into the bank and finds its way into what I believe was an old drain tile judging from the pieces of ceramic tile where the water is flowing out into the creek from the very bottom of the bank.

So the question, before we get to the images, what if anything can be done to fix this, temporary or permanent. I have access to a midsize loader/backhoe and have almost cleared a path through the trees that will allow me to get it there. Can I fill the hole? If so with what. Should I drain below the leak level and dig the entire area up and redo? Can I block the leak with something - liner maybe? Do a little dance and pray? All ideas welcome, and thanks in advance.

I posted a video of the leak for your viewing, and will embed some pictures below.
The vid is here

For those of you that watching the vid the opening is a quick pan of the larger area of the pond from east to west. Then it shows the area where the water is exiting on the pond side (that channel didn't exist last fall). Then you can see the small hole that looks like a tree root cavity[?]. Then you can see the dark area where a hole about 10 times the size of the small one is - aprox a foot above the smaller one in the bank. Then above that you can see some of the buried metal siding, and some erosion below it too from prior flooding. Then I climb up the bank and peer over the side into the creek where the water is exiting at the very bottom of the creek. Then a look back down the bank towards the pond.

And some still photos as well:

A view of the north bank.


Closer to the leak


The pathway of the leak


The smaller hole in the bank


Hard to see, but the larger hole is here





Smaller area of the pond, you get an idea of where the old high water levels were

Hello Katana, welcome to the forum from the "Friendlies"; the dirt guys must be out moving dirt right now, and JHAP must be messin' with his greenies or adjusting the Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator on the Death Star, so hold tight and someone from the "more knowledgable" camp will doubtless jump in.

Howdy, katana, and welcome to the forum.

Those are IMHO some pretty revealing pics you've posted which should help analysis by the real dirt experts.

I think the best possible repair would involve lowering the water level quite a bit and reworking that section of the dam. Have you considered an extensive renovation of that nature, with it's ability to remove some of the sediment that has built up over the life of the pond? If the pond has any undesirable (in your opinion) fish species in it, it might also be a good opportunity to wipe the slate clean wrt bullheads, common carp, and the like.

Thanks for the welcome!

I have considered a major rework. My biggest problems with that are that a) I don't know what I am doing and I can't afford the pros, already got a verbal cost estimate on that b)I am limited on the size of equip I can get in to work on it myself as the road coming in is quite narrow and surrounded with heritage oaks that I wouldn't want to cut, even if I could (restrictive covenants). That said I would love nothing more than to get this pond healthy and gorgeous again so I am open to any and all ideas, both temporary and permanent.

Does the leak connect the smaller and larger ponds? I can't tell from the pics.

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Theo is right dig out the area and patch.

If that does not help then you can look at draining the whole pond and starting over with silt removel and fish.

There is a lot of work that can be done with a shovel and a few bags of concrete. At least it could tell us what the problem is.
Keep us posted.

I have a pond leak that is almost identical to the one described above. If I were to patch the hole using a shovel and a few bags of concrete what's the best way to lower the pond level? (Should I pick up some flexible pipe at my local hardware store and start a siphon and just let it drain or is there a better/easier way?). How big of an area should be excavated around a 3-4" diameter hole before it should be filled with concrete? Is there a particular kind of concrete that should be used or can a few bags of something like Quikrete do the job? Thanks in advance for the help!

Hello Thebar and welcome to Pond Boss. Let's see if we can get one of the experts here to answer your question.

I'm all for that--I'll take all the advice I can get!

Katana,
I have repaired muskrat holes thru a dam that looked very similar to your video using a backhoe. It helps if the water level is below the hole but if it is only a small flow you can take a few scoops of dirt from the top and make a temporary U shaped coffer dam around the hole to stop the water flow while you work. Dig down below the hole,starting a the water's edge, and follow it through the dam, back filling and packing as you go with the hoe. You will have to get some more dirt to pack into the depression you will create by doing this, especially if you hit a den cavity along the way. Fairly cheap and easy way to fix a small tunnel leak if you have a backhoe.

-HH

Have you made any progress with the repair?

Well...I've been clearing the vegetation and trees around the area, so I can get the hoe back there, and have made a few observations.

1) Having gotten further into the leak (looking in from the opening, I have not opened the top yet) it is extensive, running right and left from the opening and larger than I had anticipated, a good cubic yard or two of missing earth at least.
Going to have to scout that out some more before I put a machine back there.

2) There is a tile system of some sort involved in the problem. As the pond has dropped lower I have found a tile opening below the old water level that is packed with dirt. This is about five feet to the left of the leak. Judging by the angle it runs right into or under the area where the water is dropping down into the bank. And I can see tile pieces in the large opening mentioned in 1. Need to get down in the creek and look at the opening on that end to confirm, but I was always pretty sure that was a tile too.

3) I found a tile on the opposite bank that is supplying some incoming water to the pond.

4) As the pond level has dropped it is quite obvious that the old depth of the pond has been largely filled with organic muck at least towards the banks - suspect there is one small area of depth left in the middle.

That is the update...thinking more about draining it...and wondering how I will deal with the incoming water from the tile if I do decide to drain it.

For what it is worth, I pumped my pond dry due to the geography involved. I also had 3 field tiles draining into my pond as well as what I can best describe as a natural spring in one end. In my case, I had to keep a sump pump in place the entire time I excavated to keep the water out and allow me to work. A decent pump should handle that water without much trouble if you decide to go that route. I used a cheap 3/4 HP unit from harbor freight.

JoeG did it the only way I know how.
Gather the water and then pump it past the work site.

If you need to move a lot of water, the 15,000 gph pumps from Northern Tool work very well, and will move some of the muck as well, as long as it's mixed with water. My only advice is to support the intake screen with a truck innertube to keep it off of the bottom. When I renovated the pond last year, I had to run the pump 12hr./day just to stay ahead of the water that was coming in. If you do decide to go that route (large pump) I would strongly recommend getting one with a Honda Motor. The Honda motor has a safety fail-safe that shuts it down if the oil pressure gets low. We burned up a Mitsubishi motored pump when the bank caved in and the pump slid down on it's side (still running) it finally stopped, but not before it scored the cylinder and boogered up the piston. Same thing happened to the Honda, but it shut itself off before any damage occured. Well worth the extra $100.00 (it used about 25% less gas to move the same amount of water that the Mitsubishi motored pump did also)

I was able to get electricity to my pump and I mounted it to a small pallet or skid as some would call it. It was pushing thru a 2" pipe into a 6" drain pipe, it didn't labor much and the monthly electric bill difference was negligible. People ask me how much it cost to operate and I really don't know, it was that transparent cost wise. I was only lifting water 8 feet or so total so it wasn't much and I suspect it siphoned once the pipe was full, so that may be consideration too. It's good to be prepared, it will be comforting the first day you are digging and a severe rain storm chases you off the job.