Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking my pond - NE Indiana

""Hey where can I find the articles on the Behemoth Bluegills, that Bill suggested I read are they on this site?""

Try this:
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92477#Post92477 See Mar-Apr, May-Jun, Jul Aug. Also search the old posts for " male bluegill ".

spc - Okay, here is what I came up with for your "How Many To Stock" question. Simple question, not so simple answer. There is a lot of fishery philosophy included here, so IMO don't take it lightly, but I guess with inexperience it is probably the only way one can take it.

Stocking Y Perch, WE, HSB, male BG, minnows/shiners with feeding

Here are my suggestions for stocking a new pond with a non- traditional fishery. Many of my comments also apply to the traditional bluegill bass combination, but first, a little verbal throat clearing.

The suggested numbers per acre for stocking of a yellow perch, walleye, and hybrid striped bass fishery that includes only male bluegills, fathead minnows and another forage minnow such as golden shiner are not well researched. This fishery is not recommended by governmental agencies because it has a high chance of failure or poor success, since it is complex, in their opinion untested, and for good success it requires a relatively high degree of knowledgeable management. A management ability that many government fishery biologists do not think normal pond owners possess and probably they are correct. It involves a lot more than just stocking and catching. The numbers for stocking, that I suggest, are best guess estimates assuming the pond will be regularly checked for fish growth, forage fish densities, and several OTHER variables.

Numerous VERY important variables occur in ponds that will affect how well any fishery, including the one proposed above, succeeds. Some of the important variables besides the numbers of fish stocked are:

1. The amount and quality of underwater habitat including submerged weed growth. A clean pond versus a congested pond. The �weed� species growing (those introduced and occurring naturally) will also be very important for how well the predators can deal with the weeds and or structure to find or locate prey.

2. Spawning AND survival success of all sport fish, includes supplemental stockings. Recruitment can be beneficial or undesirable based on the fishery balance within the pond.

3. Spawning and survival success of forage fish species; includes supplemental stockings and proper habitat for spawning of forage speices. Small sport and forage fish typically feed the predators. Ideally, the goal of a well balanced fishery is one where enough adults (25%-50%) of the main forage species survive to the next breeding season. If that does not occur, then usually there is some sort of problem and one should be finding out why and making adjustments in the management methods.

4. Water quality. Water quality throughout the year affects growth rates of all fish present. Lower quality water stresses fish. When fish are stressed feeding dramatically decreases and growth decreases or ceases. Complete pond aeration is almost necessary to contribute to the long term success of stocking densites suggested below.

5. Harvest rate and size of those harvested. This includes manual thinning. The best and highest quality fisheries occur where regular harvest is used to keep the fishery at a high quality to meet the pond owner�s goals. All forms of harvest contribute to total mortality and the balance within the fish community.

6. Mortality of all fish present - hatchlings to old fish. Mortality and harvest determine balance.

7. Predatory pressure. This is very important to overall fish density and is closely tied to mortality rate. Proper predatory pressure prevents species from becoming overabundant. One or two overabundant species are a detriment to the quality of the whole community.

8. Percentage of sport fish that are eating pellets. The pond owner has a fair amount of control in adjusting the balance of this feature. New pellet eating fish can be introduced and non-pellet eaters can be removed. A pellet eating fish tends to be less predatory on their preferred natural foods. A pond with a large percentage of pellet eating fish results in more forage fish being available and the optimal foraging theory working well for these fish to optimize growth rate and quickly make them trophy sized. Learn about Optimal Foraging Theory.

9. Bulk fathead minnow (FHM) and to a lesser extent golden shiner or other bulk fish stockings. This is a huge risky variable when performed in a controlled or closely managed fishery. I could write an entire article about this topic. In my long experience with just FHM, bulk amounts or purchases of FHM almost always have a few or sometimes numerous other contaminated fish present depending on the lot size and supplier. Practically every wholesale FHM producer has their ponds contaminated with some sort of unwanted trash fish. In larger operations and even in small operations, it often can�t be helped and it is the nature of the business. The worst case is when you buy the FHM from a wholesaler. These minnows are seined in mass from large controlled or wild ponds that almost always have undesirable fish in them. The seined fish in mass are never sorted by species. If any sorting is done, it is with large mechanical graders and sorting is just for a size range. At the local retailer, sometimes but rarely, a few unwanted species are recognized and tossed out. In my experiences, purchases of FHM even in lots of as small as 5-20 pounds will often have one or a few contaminating species. Individuals in these small lots can be fairly easily sorted by the pond owner, and if recognized, the unwanted �trash� tossed out. HOWEVER many new, novice or even experienced pond owners do not take the time or don�t have the ability to readily recognize similar looking trash fish. I can easily do it, because I took two full semester college fish identification courses and worked as a student assistant for four years identifying fish. Others do not often have that ability or inclination. Bottom line, frequent introductions of FHM or forage fish greatly increases ones chances of contaminating a vulnerable, well planned and successful fishery. A good fishery includes great habitat where undesirables can easily survive and spawn because that is how most good fish ponds are set up; to promote spawning and foster hatchlings. Often a strong population of LMB will take care of or minimize the trash fish problem. Without highly predatory LMB present, the trash fish usually propagate well. My personal unique fishery without LMB thrives because of the extreme caution I take to prevent unwanted trash fish contamination. All pond owners are not so lucky or careful. Reproducing trash fish can dilute the potential of a well planned or successful, unique type of fishery that is not BG-LMB based.

All of these variables and very probably a few others are interconnected. Ideally, each variable should be annually monitored and incorporated into the management plan or goals. A big challenge indeed. Poor management ultimately results in a lower quality of fishery.

Considering all the above variables (which are often ignored) and for a relatively fertile Indiana � Ohio pond that receives regular artificial high protein (40+%) pellets feedings, this is my suggested starting point for numbers PER acre of YP, WE, HSB, FHM, GS, and male BG.

1. FHM. Fall or spring 5-20 lbs per acre that are hand sorted for �trash�. Due to the trash fish contamination problem, I recommend a modest initial stocking of FHM and allow them to reproduce one season rather than add a lot of unsorted adult minnows initially to immediately feed predators.

2. GSH. 5-10 lbs/acre. Provide proper shoreline shallow (2�-8�) water habitat for spawning � spawn mats or shoreline vegetation (submerged or emergent). The shiners will be the backbone of the fishery feeding both YP and WE.

3. YP. 400-600/ac as pellet feeders. Various sizes can be combined.
Rationale - Ideally two or three sizes ALL pellet trained and stocked in spring WITH forage minnows (YP will mostly pellet feed due to lack of minnows) OR YP stocked in fall after minnows have spawned. Larger stocker size in spring of 4�-6� or 6�-8� YP will result in 8� to 12� YP by fall of first year. This can allow for a small YP harvest in the first fall or winter season. Since YP will be pellet trained the perch should readily begin consuming appropriate sized pellets and allow minnow commnity to flurish until first YP spawn becomes 1 yr old. I have found stocking YP with an over abundance of minnows often leads to a higher percentage of the YP going OFF feed and reverting to eating minnows. This is a negative because you want most of minnow consumption to be reserved for WE, YP that go off pellets, and the high percentage of NEW annual YP recruitment that does not learn to eat pellets. After the 3rd to 5 yr, one always wants good numbers of various sizes of minnows to be present to keep non-pellet eating perch (and WE) growing well. High or overabundant predatory pressure on the forage fish base results in slowed growth rates which usually occurs in year 4-6. Optimal Foraging Theory is very important to maintain a high quality rapidly growing YP population in the long term i.e. 7-10 + years. I have calculated a regular 8�-10� YP eats 1-2 lbs (350-500 ave 425) of minnows per yr - depending. IF one has just 125 non-pellet eating YP / acre this amounts to 53,125 minnows/yr (151 lbs at abt 1.75") and this does not include minnows eaten by any walleye (WE) or occassionally by HSB. ONe other feature I have observed about pellet eating YP. The larger the pond (esp larger than 1/3 ac) the more the tendency is for the new YP to not eat pellets. Numerous variables affect this. ONe of the main ones is the source where the brood stock for the original YP was from. This means as the YP population ages, the YP population as a whole becomes more and more dependant on minnows for good growth. BE aware of this, prepare for it, and plan your management for it.

4. WE � Generally the fewer you stock the faster they will grow because competition is less and more forage is available. Research indicates about UP TO 20 WE per acre is a good starting point WHEN ample, proper sized forage is available. After the first WE harvest (14"-16"), I would stock a few every 2 or 3 years so you have several year classes always present thus feeding on various sizes of forage fish. More than 30/ac and growth seems to slow down because forage fish numbers including small YP remain too low. As those initially stocked WE get to be 16�-20� (1.5-3 lb) they tend to consume larger sized prey (4�-6�) which generally results in too many small YP (YOY) surviving. Manual thinning of YP may then be needed. I counter act this problem by annually removing egg strands and YOY or 1st year perch. Restock WE as they are removed and at a 1.5 to 2 ratio. For example if you remove 3 restock 4-6 (5�-6�) WE and at a lower ratio or fewer if 10� WE are used for restocking . Cannibalism of restocked young WE almost always occurs when larger WE are present.

5. HSB � Since these predators will not be presumably eating very many fish, but AGGRESSIVELY eating pellets and competing with pellet feeding YP & male BG, I would not stock too many of these fish; at least the first couple years. At least at first consider them a lower number bonus fish. Initially stock no more than 20-30 per acre. More than that and IMO then be prepared to accept a lower quality YP fishery.

6. Male BG. You can stock a fair number of this type of fish. Start by stocking 30-50/ac. Depending on your male BG source, maybe an alternative plan is stock 12-20 males per year. Then after 2-3 yrs begin to adjust their numbers based on your results. I prefer using pellet eating male BG, even if I have to pellet train them myself. Remember if you make a mistake and stock a female BG, the initial pond plan becomes very diluted or skewed. With minnows and small YP present, WE will pretty much ignore small BG thus compounding your reproducing BG problem. When I have experienced BG reproduction in a couple of ponds with YP ,WE and minnows, the entire fishery seems to change and IMO decline.

NOTE: In general I always lean towards the lower stocking densities because this allows room for optimum growth, increasing numbers and carrying capacity of fish.

There are a couple research studies available that indicate that adult YP will readily eat and control small YOY BG. I do not completely agree with this conclusion and have not seen this occur when small minnows are also READILY available to the YP during all seasons.

A well managed YP, WE, HSB, minnow-pellet based fishery in one acre as you describe should be able to allow an annual harvest of 40-80 lbs of YP (8�-12�), 3-6 WE and as many HSB as you want since they are put and take. Trophy BG population can be managed to suit your goals put and take or resident trophies. Note, IMO when HSB get to be over 16� they are not very good eating compared to YP, BG and WE.

wow Bill, great post.

Plus one.

Even though the stocking plan has nothing to do with my pond, I read through that post three times. It occurred to me that the first seven variables could be an essay by itself as to why each and every one of us has a unique environment in our own pond. (Yes I know there are nine items in the first section but the eight and ninth may not effect as many folks as do the first seven).

It humbles me to realize that we have free and easy access to experts such as Commander Cody.

Bill, that is a Pond Boss article in of itself... Quite impressive!!!

Kudos Bill!! Great read, I am in SW Ohio and have YP, HSB and some BC as well as the standard BG, HBG and RES combination, I am 1 season in, will keep everyone posted as experiment progresses. I get the feeling, sooner or later, Ill be deemed the regions biggest fish killer....;^)

Salmonid

What JHAP said in spades!

Bill, could you elaborate a bit on the type (species) of plants that you are recommending, or that we (as N. IN. pond owners) should look for and encourage for GSH breeding areas? Also, you alluded to submerged plants, do you have any specific types in mind?

This is the first year that the pond is full after renovation last year, so I have a pretty clean slate to start with. This is a typical BG, LMB, CC pond, so I won't go into any fish details. Hurricane Ike caught me with the pond dug, but no structure placed, and no sediment traps on the banks, so I had a tremendous amount of soil fill in the deepest parts of the pond. Can you say 6 feet of sediment? I know better now!

Best natural emergent shoreline vegetation for GSH spawning is IMO least spike rush (Eleocharis acicularis). It is very common naturally in many shallow ditches and margins of ponds and lakes. It is a great shoreline stabilizer (4"-10" deep), very easily transplanted and never becomes invasive.

Submerged. At this point I prefer, eelgrass (corkscrew is best south of OH River), and several pond weeds (Potamogeton) long leaf, variable, floating, and clasping- leaved. All can be manually managed fairly well.

Bill:

Thank you very much. This is a question that I've spent countless hours trying to research. With that answer, and the other resources here I have a partial planting plan for this Spring. Now to source where I can get the underwater plants. I don't dare transplant from any of the local public lakes because of the Eurasian Water Milfoil problems that they have. (I'm about 35 miles due South of the Michigan/Indiana border). Pretty much in a straight line West of Cecil.

It's hard to find good native plant nurseries that carry a good selection of native plants for mesic(wet) areas... Here are the two best I have found:

http://www.shootingstarnursery.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=2

http://www.prairiemoon.com/store/templat...36fc71983f4db8b

As far as sources for truly submersed aquatic plants that are native, I only know of a couple:

http://keystonehatcheries.com/default.asp?id=152

http://www.pondplants1.com/submerged/submerged_pond_plants.htm

I've had good luck with Spence Nursery in Muncie, IN. http://spencenursery.com/Index/home.php

Bill, thanks so much for all your time you have put in helping me out with this project, it is very very much appreciated!!!!

Ditto!

I talked to my Sister who works for J.F. New and after a bit of prodding, it seems that they buy their seeds from Spencer Nursery as well. They aren't THAT far away (Spencer)from me. I'll give them a call next week. Thanks for the other sources, I'll let my fingers do the researching tonight.

I am new to this site. I have a question relating to the opening question. they stated they were stocking with hybrid striped bass and walleye. Where will i be able to find the location to purchase these?

Jones Fish near Cincinnati is one place that could supply you with Walleye and HSB.

Welcome to the forum dragonbait, don't be a stranger... Feel free to ask what ever questions you have and the experts will chime in with great answers as always!

Jones hatchery has them both, Finfarm fish hatchery North west Ohio has them both, Remlingers fish farm also North West Ohio has them both. all have web sites Jones is most expensive.

Well just to update everyone, I got all the renovations done to my pond, and stocked with fish, I have approx 400 Yellow perch, 50 Hybrid strippers, Put in intial stocking of 20 lbs of fhm, and 20 lbs GS, I am feeding aquamax carnivor as well, I will be adding Walleye to .. I want to thank everone who has helped me out on this site with this project because it could not have been done other wise.. And a special thanks to Cecil Beard, And a super super thanks to THE POND DOCTER MR. BILL CODY!!!! I oh you BIll!!!!

Jason McClain

I will pust some pictures at a later date!!!

Thanks for the update Jason. Make sure you do post some photos. Also let us know how the year progresses with your stocking plan. Every pond can be a learning experience for us all.

PS
I'm still amazed by Bill Cody, does this guy know his stuff or what.