Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose New Trout Pond

Hello everyone!
We completed construction on our 3 acre trout pond back in October, 2005.

We then went ahead and stocked 330 each, 5 � 10 inch rainbows (Kamloops) when the pond construction was completed! Pond only had about 3 ft. of water but we were excited to get started.
Pond eventually filled in early January (2006) and we waited for most of the ice to melt off before adding another batch of larger rainbows (Tasmanians).
In order to bypass the wait for small fish to grow into large fish I went ahead and �sprung� for some larger fish. Holy moly���.I guess I knew the price went up exponentially with the size of the fish! Our original fish in October cost $1.00 each, (5 � 10 inch) The second batch of 14 � 18 inch fish averaged $6.00 each!
I actually went directly to the hatchery and picked up the fish myself. Very nice healthy fish.

Picture of my wife helping to move fish from Oxygen barrels to the pond.


I built this dock from old "mini golf course" panels and installed it on the ice.. ............FOUR!
Anyway it works well and height is adjustable.


Picture is of completed pond with dam (structure) located to the far left.
If you look closely across the pond and between the two cottonwood trees you can see the dock.
(Photo taken just prior to our huge snowstorm).


Another photo of pond a little upstream from previous picture.



We are now contemplating adding some male only bluegills to the pond for diversity! After reading last issue of Pond Boss mag. I am excited about the possibility. We do have a feeder set up.
Any thoughts?
Rainbows have never spawned for us in other ponds so you might say it is a complete "put and take" reservoir idea!

Ed

I'm so jealous it's killin' me. You've got some of the best scenery ever, as far as I'm concerned.

How many bluegill are you contemplating adding? How certain are you as to the existence of any other fish present besides trout and BG? If there's ever been a place for a bluegill to grow to 1 kg, then this is it!

Bruce

I guess you might say I am "fishing" for an answer as to how many male bluegills to stock.

Thoughts as to why add bluegills to the pond.
1). Bluegills will ocupy shallow warmer water during summer and should be fun to fish for in that environment.
2). Trout will be in deeper cooler waters at that time of year. Competition for food between species should be minimized.

The only fish above the trout pond are fathead minnows in our dedicated 0.2 acre minnow pond. See picture below.



Thanks for your comments.

Ed

My opinions on your situation as an "all male" bluegill pond.

1. You'll likely find it hard to overstock a pond like this with all male bluegill. It's time consuming to carefully check all fish and you might even find that you'll lose enough fish to annual mortality than what you'll be adding.

2. You will probably never have great bluegill fishing if your goal is to have lots of action.

3. You WILL probably grow bluegill so big that they won't fit in the bottom of a five gallon bucket.

4. You can determine maximum stocking numbers by evaluating body condition of bluegill you are catching and comparing it to catch rate. i.e. If you aren't catching many fish and their Wr's are 125-130 you can probably continue adding fish.

Let the fishery teach you about what it will support. In theory if you overstocked, I'd think your catch rate will go way up and your fish's body condition will sag. If this is the case then just keep catching them and keeping the smaller ones.

My 1.25 acre pond has over 500 bluegill in it and the body condition of my fish is stupendous. Only problem is that I have to work pretty hard to catch a half dozen fish in an hour. The good news---two of the six will be big enough to send to a taxidermist. Late last year I was lamenting my low catch rate, until I looked in my logs and realized I'd caught 15 trophy bluegill in my pond in 2005.

Bruce,
Great idea about using WR�s to determine growth and overall health of BG. I use that technique with LMB and will use it on the �Super� HSB you sold me.

You may be a little optimistic about potential growth of my BG however. Our water is a little tooooo cool for optimum warm water fish growth and a little toooo warm in summer for cold water fish like trout to perform at their optimum. A �catch 22� you might say.
Both cold and warm water fish do OK, but not real OK; if you know what I mean.

That is one reason I am very excited about the YP / HSB pond. YP perform very well I am told in waters half way between. Should be very interesting this year.

Thanks,

Ed

Of every lake or pond I've ever seen in my entire life, the one with the biggest average bluegill was in Keith County, Nebraska and would be considered a cool water pond. The AVERAGE bluegill was over 1.25 pounds and ranged up to 2.25 pounds. The pond dynamic was as follows:

1. High density of small LMB

2. Annually stocked Rainbow trout which were only stocked because of harvest. There was no summer kill and the pond was supplied with artesian well flow.

3. Super low density bluegill

4. SCUDS!

5. Daphnia Magna

6. Ultra-clear water

7. About 1 acre in size

I personally don't think your bluegill will be limited in size. It may take them an extra year or two to get there, but bluegill are capable of growth even in the winter if you have minimal densities of fish and high densities of big invertebrates.

Geeesh! Now you went and done it. I'm pumped now!!

That pond wasn't even very deep. Maybe eight or nine feet at the most. About 30% of the surface was covered with vegetation. Looked like coontail. I got the impression that the fertility was nominal. Maybe that's common in the sandhills. I'm not sure.

Ed - Try to get scuds established in the pond where bgill will be. The cool water should cause your bgill to have longevity of 11 to maybe 14 yrs. I have had male bgill in my pond for four years now and mortality has been minimal. Fish were stocked at ages of abt 4-6 yrs. Maybe one or two of the largest fish per yr. They will likey grow slower than those in a warm water pond, but ultimate size could be big like the sizes Bruce suggested. The bgill will like supplimental feeding if possible. I also think this will also make then easier to catch or at least easier to keep track of their relative sizes and numbers. Part II of our Behemoth bgill article will discuss stocking densities. Bruce's WR suggestion is the best way to monitor the standing crop.

Thanks for the comments Bruce and Bill.

11 to 14 years for BG! I had no idea they would live that long.
Whoa! They might outlive me.
Trout probably 4 - 6 yrs?

Interesting you mention SCUD's as a beneficial macro-invertibrate. My experience with these critters is limited, but it seems I always find large populations associated with "watercres" (I think thats the plant). Bill, your best guess for enhancing environment for SCUD's.
Great forage for trout also!

Ed

Great question. I was just about to inquire the same thing.

I'm still working on determining the best habitat for scuds. I now have two species of plants that are present with high numbers of scuds - watercress and coontail (ref.Wood). I have yet to grow large numbers of scuds. I am actively persuing it again this year. I do know they require underwater vegetation. I am not sure how much fish predation pressure they will tolerate. I think some fish thin the numbers more than others. Im still on the low end of the learning curve. Stay tuned.

I'll stay tuned as long as it takes.

I'm more fascinated by scuds than any other invertebrate food source. When I've seen them they were in HUGE numbers. It was no wonder the fish were thriving. I guess I don't even know what a scud eats. Algae? Zooplankton? Detritus?

Scuds are voracious feeders considering their small size. All kinds of animal and plant matter are consumed. Very rarely do they attack and consume living animals. Those feeding in vegetation browse on the film of microscopic plants, snimals and organic debris covering leaves stems and other substrates (periphyton). They are classed as omnivorous general scavengers or detritus feeders. Gammarus lacustris is common in hard waters. Higher DO is a necessity. I think for the most part they are a cool-water species.

So if I'm keeping my pond cool enough for yellow perch, then scuds should do well for both me and Edward. I guess the only concern would be giving scuds the opportunity to escape predation enough to not be eradicated. I suppose that's where the watercress and coontail come in.

Correct. Cool alone won't cut it with scuds. I am pretty sure they need a fair amount of dense rooted vegetation beds that may have to be in shallow water that is too shallow of adult fish to forage in. Unsure about this. It is also probably important that at least some of the vegetation persists throughout the winter. Wood gets lots of scuds when he pulls up coontail with his auger through the ice fishing holes. I am not real keen on coontail in ponds but I may try growing some if it is what it takes to grow scuds. First I will try and pic the brain for deatils of my scud suppliers this year.

Possibly an interesting side note for Edward would be that the establishment of scuds may have a three-fold effect.

Bigger, faster growing bluegill

Bigger, faster growing trout

Pink meat in the trout!

If I remember correctly, a biologist told me that the diet of trout is what dictates the color of the flesh. Some trout have white flesh and others have pink to almost red. If I'm not wildly mistaken, there is something in scuds, or similar organisms that provides a nutrient that turns trout meat pink. Is it keratin??? Something about copepods rings a bell. Hmmmm. Go ahead an nail me if I'm wrong---I'm kind of going by long ago memories right now.

Yep Bruce you got it. Bill Cody can expound on this but it's in all the crustaceans and zooplankton.

Ed,

Nice by the way! So you stay cool enough up there with enough D.O. even in the peak of summer for trout? I've heard it CAN get hot during the day but cools off at night considerably. Is that correct?

Cecil,

Yep, your basically correct about our temps! Our elevation is about 4500 ft.
Night time temps are almost always in the 50's and 60's during summer months. Its the daytime highs that may sore over 100 degrees that are the killer; especially if pond average depths are somewhat shallow. I would say an 8 ft. or less pond during the summer may have problems.
Like you, I have learned from past trout experience that these fish can be real whimps. During the hot summer months we try to feed very early in the morning. Fishing pressure during mid day should be kept to a minimum also. Fish can stress and die very easily. As you know, not a good thing with expensive, large trout "on-board".

Great information on scuds! We have always had an over abundance of coontail in ponds. I may have to adjust my attitude towards this plant.

Give us anything you can find Bill......and thanks.

ed

Ed -- what is the elevation in your location?

Dave,

Ranch elevation approx. 4200 - 4500 ft.
Are you still planning on stopping by and paying us a visit on your way to Laramie?

Ed

Thanks, Ed. I wasn't sure if I had asked you about the elevation before, so excuse me if I did.

Yep, that elevation sure puts you right at the in-between stage. My best guess is that you will be able to grow some big male bluegills. I'll bet at least a 9-10 incher, and anything beyond that would be a bonus. In the Sandhills lakes around Valentine (east of you), the bluegills usually reach 10 inches (pound an a quarter or a bit more) at about age 7 or 8. In northern Minnesota, such bluegills often are 12 or older. So, you may end up right in between somehwere.

I don't know yet if I'm making a summer trip. I'll sure let you know, as I'd love to see your setup and catch one of your hybrids! I did remember to send in my antelope application, which I usually draw. So, I'll at least be driving by in early October.

I�ve been doing a little research on scuds and discovered that their populations can exceed 10,000 per square meter.

I guess they are not an insect at all but more closely related to a crawdad. The female only has 15 to 50 eggs that she attaches to her underside until hatching. That�s mighty low fecundity ( I just love that word).

Research goes on to say that they don�t do well when fish are present! Wouldn�t you know it....

Geesh! Don�t tell me I now need a dedicated SCUD�s only grow out pond. :rolleyes:

Ed

Don't think I haven't considered it!