Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Two 1 acre cattle ponds

My friend has two ponds in the hills of the Central Valley, California. They are there to provide water for the cattle but also for fishing to a lesser degree.

Pond 1-
This pond went dry 15 years ago or so and did not have any fish until yesterday. We planted a very small number (20) of 3 1/2" RS/BG mix and 75 FH. The pond has some vegetation but not a ton and almost no habitat. The water is very clear. We did make some rock piles when we there for the FH to spawn in. We hope each species spawns in a couple months and gets a foothold before adding bass in a year or so. We also were thinking of adding CC in 3 months or so. What kind of manmade structure should we add? Some X-mas trees and bluegill condos? The goal for this pond is to have a good panfish population for the kids.

Pond 2-
This pond has had BG, BC and LMB for at least 6 years. The pond has very healthy vegetation but no structure other than that. The water clarity is much less than pond 1. There are no signs of the BG or BC. We catch many 7-13" LMB, sometimes almost every cast. The fish appear to be in good shape but they are on the skinny side. Our goal is to see some larger bass.

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

Mt, what size are the two ponds?

Pond 2 sounds like a classic stunted bass pond.

Hang on for some expert opinions.

D'oh just read the thread title - Two 1 acre ponds.

I blame it on too much coffee and too short of an attention span.

PS don't tell Dwight I'm responding to myself or he'll make me subtract them from my post count.

Is the lack of clarity on Pond 2 because of silt runoff or suspension (gray-brown looking) or is it because of a phytoplankton bloom (green-light green)?

The water is greenish not gray-brown.

You must be saving up all your attention for tax prep.

mtalley:

Before adding structure to the first pond, consider whether you want the catfish to be able to spawn or not. If not, stay away from pipes, tiles, buckets, or other items which create a cavity for the CC to spawn in.

If you DO want the CC to spawn, I suggest placing permanent structure without cavities and adding portable cavities in known locations where they can be removed later IF you change your mind. I have pulled some CC spawning structures out of my main pond over then last few years to reduce CC reproduction.

See the Spawning thread in the archives for a whole bunch of ideas. The materials you have or can get a hold of easily will have a big impact on what kind of structure you can readily put in the pond.

Theo if bass are going in doubt any amount of spawning habitat will lead to channel catfish recuirtment. Only once have I seen baby channel cat in bass pond.

Maybe we should do a BG, RES, FH and CC pond for #1 and then work on getting the #2 pond that has bass in it balanced. Besides adding hiding structure for BG in the #2 pond what elses should I do, plant large BG? The biggest bass I have seen is in the 13" range.

#2 definitely sounds bass heavy, forage poor. Assuming the relative weight of the bass is low, I'd start thinning bass and planting adult BG to help reestablish a forage base.

I've only seen it once too, Greg. But that's batting 1 for 1 with me versus 1 for, what 10,000?, for you. So I guess I'm a little gun shy.

Let's stipulate the odds for successful CC recruitment lie somewhere between 1:1 and 1:10,000. Given your far greater experience, we will weigh your #s heavier and call the odds 1:9,999.

All kidding aside, CC recruitment can happen but it's a lot less likely than I worry about. I have often thought that bass heavy ponds like mine, having fewer overall small, hungry mouths (100's of LMB and 1000's of BG) than lakes like those Greg manages for large bass (10's of LMB and 10,000's of BG) are probably more likely spots for baby CC to make it through the gauntlet and live. Even if true, It's virtually unheard of to get serious CC recruitment numbers in a pond with any comb of BG & LMB.

With so many fish in the bass pond, should we be culling almost everything caught or just those under 12". The largest I have caught is 13" and that is about 15% of the bass.

I would keep the 13 inchers and maybe any 12 inchers that looked noticeably fatter than the others their length, assuming that the biggest bass and/or the ones with the best relative weight have the best potential to reach large size.

Another option would be to keep everything you catch for now. Let fish tell you when they are getting back in balance. When you start seeing bass that are a little thicker and better body condition then you can start keeping fish that are in a slot. An easy way to determine this is by keeping catch rates. The latest magazine has a list of what each bass should weigh given it's specific length. This will help you determine where your fish should be. Once they start reaching this point you can start relaxing your harvest. Notice I didn't say quit harvesting, just be more selective.

I have seen about 3 instances where there has been some CCF recruitment with bass in a pond. Recruitment even in these ponds was extremely low. It is very unlikely to occur, but I agree with Theo to prevent as much as possible don't provide habitat for them to thrive. Treat them as a put-and-take fishery.

With 13" bass, how large do the bluegill need to be so they do not get eaten?

BG 6 in. and up will not be eaten by 13 in. LMB.

Thanks Ewest, that helps a ton.

A few updates on the bass heavy pond(#2). My local fish supplier had some large bluegill in stock last week so we added some large BG to the pond hoping to get a spawn this spring. We have also been adding structure; rock piles, X-mas trees, tire piles and pallet structures. I had the pond owner read the book you get w/ the PB subscription and he has started thinning the bass.

Yesterday we culled about 20 more bass and I noticed some of them had a diaganol cut near the anal fin. About 5 had the same mark in the same area, any ideas? Sorry no pics but I can get some if I go again soon.

Also we were only able to put 20 adult BG (6-8") in the pond. Is this enough to get a decent spawn in a 1 acre pond?

Did the diagonal cut look anything like this?

To the best of my knowledge, this is a heron strike.

20 6"-8" BG is 1/2 to 2/3 of what we would typically recommend for the sole bream stocking in an acre. Considering there were already some BG in the pond (IIRC) you should be in pretty good shape.

The mark looks similar but in a different location. These bass had the mark on the bottom near the anal fin.

I have another order of fish coming in today and need some advice. I am getting some more small RES and BG to add to the pond that has no bass in it. I am also getting some 5" CC that I want to get going in the pond with no bass and the pond with too many bass. With 13" bass in the pond am I just wasting my money adding the 5" CC to it? I do have a spare 300 gal. tote that I could use to grow out some of the catfish but I am not sure how many I could put in there. If need be I could get rid of some FH I have in the other tote and use that one for CC also. Thanks again for all the great advice.

Well the CCs ended up being between 7 1/2" and 10 1/2", a nice surprise from my supplier Golden State Bait. So I put them in the ponds that both did and did not have LMB. I wonder if they will spawn next spring.

That size CC should be safe from 13" LMB. 5 inchers, I would have wondered about.

I visited a local cattle pond today that I have planted some BG, RES and FH in.

Is it possible for a RES to grow from 3 1/2" to 6 1/2" in three months? The pond appears to be in great shape but I thought that was a pretty extreme amount of growth, I guess it could have been one of the larger fish I planted, about 4 1/2". The RES hit a rubber 5" lizard.

I caught 3 RES (2 of were closer to 5 inches), 3 BG and 3 healthy LMB. I also saw a cloud of LMB fry, the first I have seen this year. The BG appeared to be getting on beds also.