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Joined: Sep 2004
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The only word that comes to mind after my conversation with my local NRCS...useless. I began to describe my project and was cut off mid sentence to be informed that the "NRCS no longer does that". I asked him to explain himself and he informed me that they were only able to help the dairy farmers and such due to staff reductions. I explained that I was more than willing to be placed on a low priority waiting list, to which he promptly informed me that my number would never be called.  I reminded him that I am a tax payer hoping that would refresh his memory to that whole government/tax pay relationship...nope, nada. I informed him that I wasn't trying to get any money or favorable loans, I just wanted to have their insight and support through my project to produce a safe, environmentally sound pond. I then suggested that their new charter would only lead to lay people trying to wing it, thus creating hazardous ponds. Yup, you guessed it, nothing. So, to my local NRCS...thanks for nothing!!!!!! Joe
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent  Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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When I went into my local NRCS, I was there for about one minute and three guys started scrambling around to find good aerial maps. Then they gave me a nice book on pond construction and a book that showed aerials of my entire county. Then they made sure I had some more fresh coffee and started brainstorming for me which property would be the best to put a pond on. I'd assume that each office has a different set of responsibilities, and probably greatly varying time allotment in which to perform their duties. I can't speak directly to your concerns, Joe, but it always bothers me when a whole group of people are painted with a single brushstroke. My NRCS was great.
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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I think all Joe did was report on his NRCS encounter. Bruce you did the same and both are good to know. It seems to vary a lot from one location to the next and the nature of the employees. The one time I contacted them the guy who came out was great and went way out of his way to help with free survey ,marking and a computer program that calculated water vol , pipe size and dam/dirt matters. That was about 6-8 years ago. I think the NCRS focus and program is changing as to pond matters based on recent reports as they seem, program wise, to not be interested in private pond matters.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Bruce,
I hear you on the single brush stroke, but unfortunately that is the only color available up here. Funny thing, I brought up this very website and told him of the countless stories of the NRCS agents bending over backwards to help folks all over the country, but that meant nothing to him. What annoys me is that we are talking about a Federal agency, not a state/local entity that is subject to varying degrees of tax base. There should be some consistency throughout the states. Sorry for the rant.
Joe
PS If any Washington state NRCS folks are reading this, I challenge you to prove me wrong. Oh wait, why would they be reading a web site devoted to pond construction, they "don't do that" here.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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ewest and Joe,
You guys are right, I probably shouldn't be so sensitive. I'm having a pretty cruddy day, anyway.
Is there any way to find out if this is a statewide problem in Washington, i.e. check with another office and see if the response is universal? Maybe some of the NRCS folks are so inundated with other types of requests that they go to lengths to keep away "new responsibilities".
I would assume that most of us are aware of what staff reductions can do to our workload. Is there some kind of literature that states the mission of the NRCS? I'd be interested to see what their mandate is.
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,261
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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Moderator Extraordinaire May pondboss lift yer spirit  it has done so for me many a day.
GSF are people too!  
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Joe have you tried contacting the regional NRCS area to confirm what the local office told you? I have found in my area that some offices are lazier than others. A call to regional director seems to answer alot of questions and motivate alot of people.
One other thing I would point out is that NRCS agents are paid with county money. You look at the county budget and see exactly what they are making. The programs they offer are paid with federal or state money.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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I just emailed the state office my situation. Maybe somebody from a different office can help.
Bruce--I don't think you were being sensitive, blanket statements usually don't cover everybody's feet. So if you are having a bad day...stop...and remember that you are still King Perch.
JBL--wasn't aware of the county by county funding, that would explain the disparity.
Joe
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Well I just got this auto reply email from the state office... I am out of the office until Monday Feb. 12th enjoying sunshine in Miami!! If you need assistance, please contact eugene.dobry@wa.usda.gov or randy.elliott@wa.usda.gov. I will be checking my e-mails just a little, while I am out. Sandi Probably some kind of diary farmer emergency going on down there, hope everything is okay...  Joe
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Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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The NRCS has de-emphasized pond assistance. This is according to my local guys.
However, there are some darn good ones. It looks like you ran into one whose Momma didn't teach him any manners. There is no excuse for rudeness. Or so Captain Woodrow Call said.
I have found that some serious complaints to elected "public servants" sometimes helps.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Lunker
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Originally posted by Dave Davidson1:
The NRCS has de-emphasized pond assistance. This is according to my local guys.
However, there are some darn good ones. It looks like you ran into one whose Momma didn't teach him any manners. There is no excuse for rudeness. Or so Captain Woodrow Call said.
I have found that some serious complaints to elected "public servants" sometimes helps. I couldnt agree more with Dave. It's not that they were NRCS folks, but they were just unprofessional and would have been so regardless of what job they were holding down.
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Natural Resources Conservation Service
Mission Statement
The mission of the Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS) is to provide national leadership in the conservation of soil, water, and related natural resources. The NRCS provides balanced technical assistance and cooperative conservation programs to landowners and land managers throughout the United States as part of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA).
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Joined: May 2006
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Lunker
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Lunker
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from NRCS site
About NRCS
Helping People Help the Land
NRCS - Who We Are
Strategic Plan
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Since 1935, the Natural Resources Conservation Service (originally called the Soil Conservation Service) has provided leadership in a partnership effort to help America's private land owners and managers conserve their soil, water, and other natural resources.
NRCS employees provide technical assistance based on sound science and suited to a customer's specific needs. We provide financial assistance for many conservation activities. Participation in our programs is voluntary.
• Our Conservation Technical Assistance (CTA) program provides voluntary conservation technical assistance to land-users, communities, units of state and local government, and other Federal agencies in planning and implementing conservation systems.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Nice job, cliffbrook.
Seems pretty cut and dried doesn't it? If I'm reading that correctly, Hey Joe should have gotten a lot better response.
...and from Burger: "but they were just unprofessional and would have been so regardless of what job they were holding down".
Ain't that the truth!
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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Joined: May 2006
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Lunker
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my experience has been less than wonderfull
some recolected quotes
before "you can build pond if you want but its not the best site"
after "you must be very proud"
about another site "build the pond and we will see what we can do for getting it into a program"
i think these people generally dont have ponds...kinda like the county conservation people all live in town but come out to the country and tell us how we are supposed to do it and what the rules are
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Hey Joe, For the record I got exactly the same response from my NRCS agent. I did just fine without them, probably a lot better.
Find yourself a good grading contractor who has built ponds before. The two of you and this forum are all you need.
Hey Moe, I'm trying to think but nuthin's happening!
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Joined: May 2006
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Here is a copy of the email I sent to the "Acting Director". Currently she is acting like a director and unavailable...  Hello,
I wanted to express my disappointment with the lack of support I am receiving from my local NRCS. I live in Whatcom county and wish to build a 1/4 acre pond on my property. I purchased the property in 2004 and at that time had a very helpful NRCS agent come out and give me a preliminary opinion and volunteered to come back and do a survey. I informed him that I was still a few years away from being able to do the project and would be in touch.
So here we are a few years latter and much to my surprise when I contacted my local office to involve them in my project, was informed that the "NRCS longer does that". I was then informed that due to staff reductions that "only the dairy farmers" were eligible for technical assistance. I then asked to be placed on a low priority waiting list, but was told that my number would never be called. I emphasized that I was not looking for any cost sharing/loan help, but rather their involvement and leadership during my project...no, sorry. I then reminded him that I am tax payer too, but that did not seem to matter.
I am a member of an online forum dedicated to pond construction and care. There are numerous current projects from all around the country where folks are receiving tremendous support from their NRCS agents. Time and time again I hear of people stressing the importance and dedication of their local agents. So why the disparity? Why has the Washington NRCS taken a stance that they will no longer take an active leadership role in insuring that environmentally sound private ponds are created? You are Federally funded and have a responsibility to provide the same basic level of service to people no matter what part of the country you live in.
Your mission statement: The Natural Resources Conservation Service provides leadership in a partnership effort to help people conserve, maintain, and improve our natural resources and environment.
Maybe you should change the "people" part to "dairy farmers in Washington state" to eliminate future confusion.
Cliffbrook- I couldn't agree more and beautiful ponds. Jersey- Yup!!!
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Joined: May 2006
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Jersey is right
Bruce, you probly naturally get alot of help when you ask with that sparkly smile
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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nice job joe, i hope it gets some attention, would it do any good to cc yer congressional rep and senator too?
cliffbrook, that's a nice slice of mother earth, and dittos to jersey's statement.
GSF are people too!
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Lunker
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Hey Joe
Just my 2 cents worth,try not to dwell too much on the negative folks you run inyo. I understand the frustration,been there,but look at the bright side.There is always PONDBOSS and all the wonderful people that go with it.I havent been a member long but have spent many hours reading old threads and I wish I had found it when I first started my pond.Maybe someone at PB can apply for federal grant money and fly around the country helping the little guys out.Arent ponds a national security ussue?There ought to be a way to get a few million from them,after all it is the gov't.you are probably dealing with an agent that was involved in cowfart reseach years ago and is having residual side effects,proceed with caution.
I subscribe Some days you get the dog,and some days he gets you.Every dog has his day,and sometimes he has two! 
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Lunker
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Nice place Cliffbrook! Do you own the barn and fields in the background??
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Joined: May 2004
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Whether State Employees or Credit Card company worker drones, if and when I get an unfavorable response, I always, ALWAYS, simply say "let me speak to your supervisor." The outcome is inevitably better than it was going with Mr. "I hate my job and do as little as I can get away with here" employee. Be prepared for both success and disappointment, for sometimes the facts are the facts and nothing can be done in your favor. But too, be ready to drop names. If they know you have your ducks in a row and know who to call that funds/controls their purse strings, only a fool wouldn't offer you refills on your fresh coffee.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Lunker
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One problem is that you live in a blue state, where the purpose of the life of a taxpayer is to fund the government. Might want to move to a red state, where people still have a clue. . Though I only spoke with my local NRCS folks over the phone, they were really friendly and helpful people. Didn't take long to figure out however, that I knew as much or more than they did about it.
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Lunker
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TN Hillbilly, I don't think it has anything to do with the particular politics of a state. Rather, I think it has to do with a particular employee. Every county NRCS has an elected board of directors. They're to ones to talk with.
Like many other people, I've extremely good service from the NRCS.
Norm Kopecky
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