Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations New pond or old Soil Cons. lake?

Question for those pond gurus out there. If you had the option of buying a property with a great layout for a pond (5-7 acres in size based on watershed, $$, etc) or another property with an existing conservation lake (probabably 8-10 aces in size when full) built in '70 with dam in excellent shape, some impressive test fishing results, what do you pick.

All in, the costs are about equal, calculating in costs of pond building, stocking versus buying the turnkey operation and fishing from day 1.

Other difference in property is location and size, existing lake property is about 15 minutes closer and roughly 35% smaller in total acreage than the startup property.

My wife and I recently noted that we have spent more on our start-from-bare-acreage farmstead than all the ready-to-move-in farms we looked at that were too expensive for us to buy. But here we have done almost everything the way we want it, rather than having to rework & retrofit existing structures, fence, etc.

I would recommend the startup property if the existing lake is not everything you want. Being there for the planning, constrcution, stocking, and buildup managing is something most of us who have been through it treasure. You will know, understand, and feel in your heart so much more if you do it yourself. Plus, along the way you may find out that everything you thought you always wanted was wrong and change direction easier and cheaper than changing an existing lake.

Mike,

That is an interesting question...and the answer depends on your objectives and time frame for achieving them.

Consider it will take several months to build the new pond. Then a period of time to fill it, which could be months or even years. I don't know your locale or fish preferences, but it can easily take another two to three years on top of that to establish a quality predator fishery.

In the meantime, you could be catching fish and improving the existing lake.

The DIY aspect of planning and being part of the construction and establishment of a new pond is not for everyone. It is rewarding, yes, but also fraught with significant risks. Not many have hit it perfect the first time....heck, I'm on number 5 and have not even come close to perfection, but I enjoy trying.

Only you can make that trade-off between current enjoyment of existing pond vs planning and building a new one. Risk assessment should be part of that decision making process, IMHO.

Mike,
If you buy the existing site, you will be the proud owner of a 35 year old flood prevention lake with a good fishery.
On the other hand, if you buy the other site, Meadowlark is absolutely correct. You run the risks associated with building a new lake, then stocking and managing it. Those risks are, designing the dam and the lake, working with contractors, soil issues, watershed management and stocking the fish.
Personally, I would buy the site to build the lake, if your temperament is such that you can work through the process of creating a new lake. It's quite fulfilling, knowing you conquered it, and it's your lake, from the get-go. Plus, when you build the lake, it's a fishing lake, not necessarily a silted-in flood prevention lake with a shorter life.

Mike,

With costs being equal, thats a tough call.

In addition to the comments you've received already, I'll throw out my thoughts. If the conservation lake was built with government funding, are there any restrictions attached to the purchase of the property and/or lake? Who made the call that the dam was in excellent shape? With the impoundment being 30+ years old, is there some maintenance work that you may be looking at in the near future?

On the flip side, a new project, designed from scratch with your goals in mind "could" be a fun project however I would certainly do the necessary homework to determine what obstacles you may encounter. One possible obstacle that has been touched on in the past conerns local government agencies, i.e. ACOE permitting.

DD1 just posted and is obviously more knowledgeable with your situation. Never ran across problems with mineral rights in my area but I'm sure that would be a concern to you.

Thanks for posting and good luck with your decision. Please keep the board updated.

Mike, a couple of thoughts. These are things that I will do if I ever have it to do over again. Drive around and take a look at neighbors. Stop and visit. Ask about depth to water and how their wells are. Contact the Montague and/or Wise County Sheriff's office and ask about local problems. You might wind up with a real nightmare on your hands that someone else is trying to escape. I heard about a five acre place that was about to be foreclosed on. I looked at it and got pretty enthusiastic about its financial potential (after a little dozer work). It is on a county road with a private road coming off the county road. When I drove down the PR, I decided to pass. There is a bunch down there, on adjoining property, that looks like a scene out of the movie Deliverance. You know the type. What is uphill from you? We all live downstream from somebody.

I would get a backhoe in and dig a couple of test holes to assure that you really do have a potential lake site before buying. You have the experience and knowhow to stock it right. Is all of the runoff on you or could a neighbor impound your runoff?

On the existing one, I would do a test to find out how much silt there is. You won't notice the weeds this time of year.

One thing I neglected to note in our previous PM's is the Barnett Shale. Check on who controls the mineral and drilling rights, both surface and sub surface. If you have neither, the Natural Gas Companies or sand and gravel companies can turn your place into a mess. They only have to pay for damages to the land, not to your lifestyle and enjoyment of life. I know you are looking for a scenic place and that can change pretty damn quickly.

How far is it to electric power? Who provides it, TU or Wise Electric? I'm sure you've already considered wildlife and also soil suitability for hay production. The history of the lands usage is important. BTW, no matter which way you choose, bring rain.

Mike :

I have been through both processes building and renovating several times. In fact renovating requires a mental process much like building -- i.e. - being able to see potential and understand how to get there. It often takes pro help even for those who have been through the process as no one has all the ideas and answers. Also renovation is an ongoing process as there are always things you want or need to change even on a new pond you design. There are also a thousand ways to change/renovate an existing pond to make it better.

Many good replies above so I will not repeat any in that regard. Do take into account the entire piece of land and its potential not just the pond. Which one do you like better and remember that the one without a pond will change much with the addition of a pond. We will not buy a tract with or with out a pond with out getting the advice of knowledgeable pond owners/managers/builders who have seen the land and pond. Often they are friends who know what works and we swap helping each other. But we use pros also and every time when endg. questions arise. Good luck and let us know what happens.

Mike before I give my opinion I want to see them both. If you aren't going to live on the property fifteen minutes each way can add up quick.

Mike,
Another potential risk involved in building the new lake is that there is no guarantee that it will hold water. I have a friend who built a supposedly 15 acre lake. He did all the right things as far as having the dirt tested to make sure the clay content was high enough and used a very good contractor to build his dam. Well, when the lake began to fill up, it would only get to about 4 acres. It turns out that there were some sandy areas that no one found up front that leaked. He spent alot of money trying to fix the problem without success. He finally sold the place. One thing about building a new lake is that you never really know what you will end up with until after you spend your money.

If you buy an existing lake, you will already know alot about whether it holds water and if the watershed is large enough, etc. You should tell the real estate folks that you will need to launch a boat on the lake to check the depth and try to get an idea of the types of fish in the lake. I did that with my lake that I bought last year. My lake was built in the 60's but I found that it was plenty deep and also found lots of cover on my depth finder. Also found out a little about the fish population.
Bill

Thanks for the replies everyone, especially given everyone's experience and expertise.

I'll update when and if a contract is executed and closed.