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#35085 09/01/05 07:51 AM
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We have a new pond and have had visits from a Heron who has a large appetite. We stocked the pond early this summer with fat head minnows as forage, large mouth bass and blue gill. Any suggestions on ways to keep it away from the pond?

We have heard that they are solitary creatures. Friends have suggested using heron statues to prevent them from feeding at the pond. Any comments on this approach? If this works do any of you know of a reliable source?

Thanks!

#35086 09/01/05 08:06 AM
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There have been a few threads with good info on heron control here, but I can't find them right now or remember what section they were in.

However:

Cecil Baird has had pretty good success deterring Great Blues by placing brightly colored lines 1-2' off the ground around his ponds, I believe just inside and outside of the waterlines.

Great Blue Heron decoys should be available from either Cabela's or Bass Pro, if you want to try them. I remember folks reporting they had some success with the decoys, IF they kept moving them around.

Large, boisterous free-roaming dogs (Labs are a favorite) who like to run off Herons may be the best solution, if you have one.

I have personal experience with Great Blues (one at a time) and Green Herons (singly or in pairs). A couple of incidences loud noises accompanied by small objects moving in excess of 2000 fps passing close by their heads will frequently convince them to bother someone else's pond. On the other hand, I currently have a Great Blue who can see or hear me leave the house, whereupon he flies off for a while and returns later.

While we hate to lose any fish, realize that herons do a relatively small amount of damage compared to the colonial fisheating birds (cormorants in particular).


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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#35087 09/01/05 08:16 AM
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silverdo,

One Heron isn't going to make a significant impact on your fish population. Understandably, it's natural to feel that any amount of unwanted fish removal is too much.

I've found that repeated violent loud confrontations with the intruder will convince it to look elsewhere for its free meal. Also, as Theo stated, several threads herein address other Heron controls.

#35088 09/08/05 11:36 PM
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If you plan to use a heron decoy make sure you wait until after mating season to put it out at the waters edge. During mating season the decoy will actually draw in cranes that would have otherwise passed you by. After nesting has begun you can put them out.

My personal experience is to use the loud noise approach. I found that a crane will enter the area (if you have alot of surrounding trees) and stay out of site of the decoy via tree lines or brush. It doesn't matter if they see you or not if sending a 2000 fps (thanks) racket over their heads.


Just another 1 acre hole in the ground...........with fish !!!
#35089 09/13/05 09:07 PM
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Good Luck! The brightly colored lines work pretty good but I've still see those devils get in somehow! And then when they can't wade in they are on my pier! I'm not only concerned with the fish they mutilate (large ones a hole in the back) but the numerous parasites they add to the water. Believe it or not cattails can be a good deterent if they are thick enough.

I hate to say it but the only real effective eliminator of a persistent bird that will not give up, is those high speed projectiles moving at 2000 fps, that purposely or accidently find their target. Sad but true. If I lived in an isolated area where I could get away with it I would gladly blow their brains out! They are as common as flies here and nothing more than parasite vectors in my opinion.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#35090 09/13/05 09:49 PM
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Cecil, have you talked to your neighbors about the problem? They might turn deaf.

Mine have about my squirrel management program within the city limits.

#35091 09/14/05 02:42 AM
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ahah, someone mentioned herons in an earlier post, this summons 'the heron file' compiled from various ponders experience, over the years....

Herons have a muddle of habits, some go in for neat extermination jobs, others may be picky, leaving the whole body of a fish and only eating the tail section. Go round a lake after herons have been and you will find a lot of variation in kill habits... Yes, they will fly around and around a location on many days before even landing on a tall tree close, for a more careful look... Very keen eyesight and hearing, indeedy...

After a serious heron attack, its quite normal for fish to go hiding for weeks, so you never quite know what has happened.... on a well planted pond with a lot of cover, most fish survive though you will notice the dramatic difference in their usual behaviour and wonder why.

Here's a few notes collected from observations and other folks experience \:\)

1) Predator nets.... cheaper than losing koi, downside, local animals can get trapped in it, snared. Not very pleasant explaining to your neighbor why their pedigree cat or dog lost its life or leg through strangulation. Predator nets are probably the most cost effective barrier method, a large mesh of around 4" should allow most varieties of plants to grow through it without tangling the mesh. Smaller meshes tend to be a mess with plants, strangled pets, and dead frogs by the time Spring arrives...

2) Barrier method.... Suspend strong fish line taut, 12" around the pond, herons hate trip wires. An elegantly simple way to baffle a dim fishbag on stilts, it often works, many folk have reported seeing herons 'baffled' this way.... a near invisible line that they can't see, bump into, cannot step over without tripping, is enough to stop them....

3) Hiding places... Step up cover within the pond... water lilies.... big bits of pipe, float large sheets of black polythene (trash bags will do) trippy stuff for tangling up predators... hiding places for fish. Surprisingly, many black plastic objects, when submersed become virtually invisible, in a natural setting, so the idea of this clutter in pond is not as bad as it sounds. I like this method, it creates a lot of hiding places and is virtually invisible to the usually attractive pond setting, it makes it very difficult for the likes of persistent herons and raccoons when they raid.... useful in winter when foliage is bare and fish want somewhere quiet, to hibernate, bare crystal clear ponds must be an easy target for predators....

4) Pond design... When you make a pond, make 45� sides, herons have gangly legs, they like 'easy walking' conditions, they hate 'trippy' pond surroundings... The one common weakness of predatory birds is the vulnerability of their gangly long legs, they absolutely rely on an easy landing place, and an easy stroll into the pond, handy shallow terraces are a big help....

5) Trapping... I can't be so fiendish, I cant advise you put out snares... a simple loop of fish line can lock onto a predators leg. Nasty way to die, that

6) Shooting... Not everyone in the world live in areas where herons are protected, or rare... I can't recommend a .22 air rifle, a bit politically incorrect, even though a heron is easy to hit at 200' with a decent scope, unfair, too easy I guess. Anyone who has used a rifle properly could hit a quarter at 100 feet so for the squeamish, clipping some tail feathers is quite possible .....or hit a bucket placed beside the pond loud and close enough to frighten the bejasus out of the vile fish bag... that is a quite effective clean way....Alas rifles in most peoples hands are quite counter productive, you can waste a lot of time waiting for the opportunity to use it, to learn how to be competent with a rifle and the consequences of a bad tempered person with a lethal tool is well, unpopular...

7) Sprinklers... For the flash and the opulent, linking a motion detector and a sprinkler might provide some amusement to scare off the dratted bird. Or, a hose with a timer, that briefly blasts water every 15 minutes or so, enough to startle a pest... if the risk of absent mind folk getting a drenching is bothersome, perhaps the motion detector could be linked with an emergency service strobe light, that would be enough to freak most long leggedy villains away \:\)

8) Aquatic plants... A heavily planted pond makes life very difficult for predators, even though the big bright dumber fish will always be taken first, shy nervous timid (smart) fish and the little 'uns ought to be able to find good hidey holes easy... the rafts of aquatic iris, water lilies make life very difficult for hunters to find fish, let alone move around or risk stumbling among

9) Fish feeding routine.... Have a special food signal, like tap a stone three times at feed time. You don't want your fish to associate every visitor to your pond, with a free meal.... one day it will be a heron, looking for freebies...

10) Heron statue... what a novel idea, picturesque even. They always seem to be coming on the market, second hand. Never heard anyone had any success with them, other than folk who sell them, I guess.... Now I have heard of someone linking an owl statue to a motion detector and they swore that worked... that would be a hoot if it hooted when motion was detected....

11) Sonic guns.... There is a very promising new device coming onto the market.... sonic 'guns' that fire a narrow band of extreme noise in a confined direction. Link this to a motion detector and it really will do the job... herons are incredibly sensitive and nervous, a violent sound like that pointed at the pond area will really blow them away when they trigger the sonic gun. Because of the controlled direction of the sonics, its not likely to bother neighbours, much.... Very promising, that method..... Another device that can be activated by a motion detector is a strobe light, the sort that emergency vehicles use, that can drive off predatory birds which are unable to hunt with such a dramatic distraction... that has been reported to keep fish ponds free of attacks recently, not a big deal to find and install.

12) Baseball bats. Herons by nature are incredibly careful hunters, you won't get within 50 feet with a bat. Anyone thinking of trying such a method will quickly learn the bird is a lot smarter than them, and that will be just sooooo embarrassing....

13) Crocodile heads... that might well work in Southern areas where crocodiles are well known predators, however, many herons are not familiar with crocodiles at a young stage, or have never seen them before so in many cases it just won't be noticed, except, in areas where crocodiles are well known...

14) Tin traps.... Another 'scarer' for discouraging prowlers could be a tin trap, a big can with some large round stones to rattle loud within, this can be precariously perched and attached to a fishing line trip wire along likely approaches. Very effective after dark and around morning and dusk...

15) Shishi odoshi.... Another critter scaring method, which may or may not work against predatory birds but is supposedly effective against deer is the Japanese 'shishi odoshi'....If it is a little out of the way without too many neighbours close, this old japanese design for scaring deer might be effective, made out of a few large pieces of bamboo and relying on a trickle of water to keep it going, it's supposed to work on deer, though, moose might be a different matter... It could drive you nuts if you made it a little loud...

Checkout:
http://www.canadianhomeworkshop.com/weekend/shishi_odoshi.shtml

16) Koi 'decoys'.... Believe it or not, folk are reporting they work. Someone somewhere makes rubber? koi which you can moor in the pond in an open area... looking like a dozey sitting 'duck' the heron sneaks up, batters at it a few times, tries to yank the koi plus anchor out of the water, only to discover it can't.... by which time all the real koi are well alerted and in hiding, having a good snicker, I hope

17) This is a hunch, however it could work, I have yet to hear of anyone trying it. Realistic life size statues of natural predators such as cats or foxes might well discourage flying fishbags. Move them about now and then and it might impress herons when they are doing their fly by reconnaissance missions, they are very picky about landing in places where predators are about

The time when predatory birds go pond hopping is often determined by local factors, drought, floods or freezes have made difficult or clouded their usual hunting places, early morning and fog is often a factor to make them bold enough to go close to places where ponds are, compact sushi bars are preferred....

Herons are creatures of habit, they will 'tour' their favourite water holes quite religiously. When they spot a new pond with fish they will add that pond to their schedule and turn up like clockwork with the same routine...

Their eyesight is extremely good, it is something of a big advantage if the fish turn out to be garishly bright koi or goldfish... Not unlike a neon sign shouting 'sushi bar' loud and clear...

The loathsome fishbag on stilts might circle a promising pond a couple of times about 400 yards away, checking the whole area then appear to disappear over the horizon... They will disappear if they have spotted anything lurking, perhaps a cat, or fox is about...

Several minutes later, they will overfly it once or twice, gliding quite slow, to bank and turn and seem to go away. Five minutes or so they then come very slow, steady and at a low height from a completely different angle as if to take by surprise any skulking entity... hedgehopping, literally...

Should they spot one little thing that frets them, they will abort landing...

They want the pond all to themselves, with no complications like dogs, or people about...

Only then, when they are absolutely sure it's safe to plunder, will they come in and land in a high place overlooking the pond. Perhaps a chimney, or a small tree close to the pond.

Herons quite often explore ponds in gardens during times of poor visibility, fog, at first light when their usual haunts have become difficult, for example when floods have clouded waters, or when ice has formed, the conditions for likely heron attacks can be predicted if you keep an eye on the weather forecast...

When they have landed at a high vantage point overlooking the pond area, they really take their time and look with those beady little dark eyes, to make absolutely sure nothing is lurking before flapping to the best landing spot close to the pond...

I say they, because it is not unusual for them to go about in pairs...

Should your pond be netted they will go to some lengths to try and get within, finding or forcing any gap that they can... When they are safely well within the net, that is quite a good time to, errr....

...surprise them

regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

#35092 09/14/05 08:26 PM
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 Quote:
most fish survive though you will notice the dramatic difference in their usual behaviour and wonder why.
I watched a program last night on parasites. The heron segment showed the heron fishing and releasing the parasite, which lives in the heron. The parasite enters the fish and the fish's reflexes slow way down, making it easy prey. The heron eats the parasite infested fish and the cycle starts over. The fish illustrated in the show was about 3" long and the parasite was about 2". BTW there is a parasite in about 50% of US citizens that has some what the same effect.


1/4 & 3/4 acre ponds. A thousand miles from no where and there is no place I want to be...
Dwight Yoakam
#35093 09/14/05 09:24 PM
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I assure you that my parasite is considerably bigger than about 2"!


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]
#35094 10/07/05 12:20 PM
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How large of a fish can a heron eat?

#35095 10/07/05 12:26 PM
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seefert,

Not sure, but they can kill (by spearing) a much larger fish than they can swallow...evidence is the occasional 12 inch or so dead speared LMB in my ponds.

#35096 10/07/05 12:36 PM
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I saw blue heron down a 9" BG once, that herons throat looked funny as the BG was going down. To be honest with you I thought he was going to choke on it but didn't. \:D

#35097 10/07/05 01:57 PM
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I watched a heron take a 12" LMB out of the pond this Summer. I managed to make enough noise (a high speed crack) to get him to drop the fish. There wasn't even a mark on the bass, but it took me too long to get down to the pond to be able to revive it. I wish I'd have thought to eat it; was too upset at the time to make the best of the situation.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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#35098 10/07/05 02:40 PM
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I've seen heron eat some very big Bull frogs!

\:\(

#35099 10/07/05 07:29 PM
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I found a 19" Walleye about 2 feet from the edge of the pond a couple days ago. From the teltale entry and exit wounds it was definately killed by a Herron that found out after he had speared it there was no way he was going to get it down.

Didn't catch any Wallys this year (but didn't specifially fish for them either) and the last ones caught last year were between 29" and
31 1/2" so was quite surprised to find this little guy.

His days are numbered.


Mistakes are proof that you are trying.


Dan
#35100 10/08/05 07:24 AM
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Dan,

You have 29-32" walleyes in your pond!! When can I come help fish them out? J/K. I might be contacting you in the near future when we move and I can build my pond. 'Eyes were on my list to try to stock later on.

#35101 10/08/05 10:31 AM
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CEADMIN,

I put 150 Wallys 8-10 inch size in '97, the 5th year of the pond. Don't have a clue how many survived but never found a dead one. We didn't catch a single one until '01 so we assumed (yeah, I know) none of them made it past the Bass. They were 16-18 inches when we started catching them and only 2 or 3 a year and usually while Bass fishing. Most were returned to the pond as they did not have the habitat to reproduce in the pond, no inflow or out flow, no gravel beds, etc.

That is why I was surprised since the last ones, almost 2 years ago, were quite a bit larger. Maybe just a "runt", I don't know.

Good luck with your pond and I know you will not regret putting Wallys in.

Dan

BTW- in '97 I paid $1.45 each for them but I'm sure they are more by now.


Mistakes are proof that you are trying.


Dan
#35102 11/07/05 11:49 AM
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Andrew, number 18 on your list - and this is no heron story \:D

WILD TURKEYS...... \:\) \:\)

My DIL raises wild turkeys and they are so tame they will follow you around looking for a handout.
Recently they have discovered herons. They are aggressive critters and are chasing them from the pond with a vengence.

Now if only we can train them for water turkeys, but a scoped 22 rifle works wonders.... \:D

George Glazener
N.E. Texas 1/4 acre and 2 acres ponds

#35103 11/07/05 07:36 PM
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I'm will be doing something different this year on the ponds to keep herons out. I have been using stakes with heavy fishing line with success, but putting several rows of line and stakes in the pond has been a pain. It also made it difficult to cut out the cattails so it all had to come down.

I will be putting a 2 to 3 foot fence around the pond edge this year that I hope will be permanent. Either plastic fencing or chicken wire mesh.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#35104 11/14/05 09:13 AM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Theo Gallus:
I assure you that my parasite is considerably bigger than about 2"!
lol .......... \:D


If wishes were horses, dreamers would ride.

I must admit that I am not a fan of the Catfish \:\)

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