Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Doing it myself...need some pointers

Since digging my 1acre pond 5 years ago, its been nothing short of a disaster. Like many of you, Ive always dreamed about having a nice pond. My pond leaked after the first year and hasnt stopped. Finally had the original excavator out this fall to drain, smooth bottom, and line with clay. To make a looong story short...the excavator scraped all the soft sludge from the bottom and piled it around the inner banks and wont return to finish it. My house is built right on the pond so I have to make it look decent. Im planning on using Soilfloc to address the leak, but for now I have to clean up the huge mess.

Ive decided to rent an excavator and dozer and finish it myself with a friends help. Ill save a ton of money this way. The banks were originally cut steep to deter weed growth. This looks awful when you dont have much water. Id like to make a long taper to water level so that I can maintain grass. I want to dig all the sludge out and push it away. Here are my main questions:
1: after I remove sludge, is it better to make my new tapered inner banks by cutting back virgin ground or by merely pushing dirt around to taper it off?
2:if time permits with my rental, Id like to dig a few deep holes in the bottom. Currently the bottom is small chunks of limestone and clay/sand. All the water percolates through this. Is there a chance I could dig into a gravel vein and open a drain?

I can answer this part of your question as I am also in Northern Illinois.....yes...I have both sand and gravel veins in my .5 acre. I get by as my pond is sitting on a giant aquifer and a very high water table. As a result, I have a water table pond and it is working out ok so far.

I would cut back into virgin soil vs. push dirt into the hole. Pushing in means trying to compact what you push into the hole. With only a dozer and excavator, that will be impossible.

As for digging deeper holes, talk with TJ first, I don't know how it's work with the SoilFloc. Think of a bathtub. The plug is either in or out. In and the water level stays the same. Out and, well, you get the gist of it.

Agree with esshup on cutting back the virgin soil. If you push loose soil in it will just be a loosey goosey mucky mess. It will take years if ever to compact to where you don't sink to your knees if you walk out into it.

A backhoe or trackhoe going aorund the edge can so a nice job of sloping the bank from water level up. A really good operator can do a really good job. I'm definitely not a good hoe operator but with patience even I can get it done, albeit considerably slower.

Great...thanks guys. I'll pull everything up with the hoe and maybe run parallel to the shore with the dozer just to even it out.
Any thoughts on whether I'm gambling by digging some deeper holes? Since I'm already at water table, is there any possibility of digging into a "drain". I sure don't need any more headaches to deal with. Was planning on doing this next week, but forecast has rain almost every day. I'm holding off for now until it dries out.

Just be careful with the dozer if you have a steep drop off into water. Dozer grousers are straight across. On a side hill, especially if the soil or clay is wet, they can slide sideways. You don't want to end up in the water.

Dozers will generally slide sideways long before they will tip. Know a professional owner/operator, with probably 25 years experience at the time, was finishing a steep bank. Dozer did not tip, but instead slid sideways. Problem was, when it hit the bottom of the embankment, then it tipped over. He ended up with a hydraulic lever through the side of his mouth and a bunch of teeth knocked out. Lived to doze again but he was out of commission probably 6 months. Bad deal, and he was considered one of the better operators in the area.

I ALWAYS make any operator I have chain down the dozer on our lowboy. You would think, heavy as they are, they would just sit up there. Well they will, but go around a corner and have the grousers on steel or even wet wood............ I have seen and heard of more than one dozer slid off the edge of a trailer where "they were just going a little ways".

Just be careful on sidehills where there is something below where you don't want to be. My sphincter muscle starts warning me anything over about a 3 to one on dry dirt. Wet clay better keep it to 4-1. Or flatter.

As far as even it out, unless you need to to compact it, I prefer a rough bottom.

Weather has been awful for excavation work due to all the rain. Looks like were in a winter pattern now with colder temps and no more rain. I was hoping to get this project finished before the spring rains come. Do you think it is ok to proceed when the ground starts to freeze? I know the machinery can handle it, but I"m not sure how the dirt will grade in winter.

This is my inexperience showing, but from what I have seen you cannot compact frozen soil with ice in it. In fact it will become quick sand upon thawing if it gets all stirred up together. I have made the mistake of walking through a home site in the spring of property graded over the winter, and not made it across the "lawn". Knee deep in mush.

So the hope would be is your subs-oils would remain thawed as you work, or not enough moisture in them to be a problem. It seems to me to be a risk though.

As was said, excavation would not be a problem, but proper compaction would.

Proper compaction is why my forage pond is not completed. Clay was wet to the point of it being to soft for compaction, looks like it may be summer before I can complete the forage pond.

Tracy

Thanks guys!! My goal is to taper out all the inner banks as to end up with a slope that I can mow close to the water line. Im going to dig with a hoe and move the dirt away with a dozer. Will compaction come into play with this game plan? Excuse my ignorance, but I just cant afford to pay a pro to do the work. Appreciate all the input

Yes. The only time that compaction won't come into play is if you have a groundwater pond that is tied into the water level of subsurface water. AND ponds like that are a PITA to manage and take care of - I have one and wish I didn't.

Proper compaction won't happen with the tracks on a dozer or excavator unless you have pottery clay type soil.

Sheepsfoot roller, pack it down in 6"-8" lifts until the sheepsfoot walks out of the ground, spread out another lift and do it again. I would start to feel comfortable after the 3rd compacted lift, and really breathe easier after the fourth lift.

No, it's not fast or easy, but spending a bit more time and $$ now to do it right will keep you from spending roughly 100% of the money again to do it correctly the 2nd time.....

Be cautious. ""I've decided to rent an excavator and dozer and finish it myself with a friends help. Ill save a ton of money this way.""

It sounds to me like your soil is a problem situation for a well sealed pond. By spending money to do it yourself, it may not work and you may have to end up hiring a professional to try and get a sealed pond. So our rental money may not a wise investment. I hope your idea works. And remember proper compaction will be the utmost importance for a sealed pond basin. Thinner lifts (4"-6") provide better compaction than thicker lifts(8"+). Vibratory sheepsfoot is the ultimate soil compactor. Soil sealing additives applied properly will provide some added benefits for a sealed pond basin.

I have pottery clay soil and still have leaks when compacted with a dozer.

I've given up on trying to seal the pond. I'm just trying to taper the slopes so that I can plant grass and make it look presentable.