Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Notice Letter From City Regarding Silt Removal

Hi all,

Hoping for some help in dealing with a notification the homeowners in our subdivision just received.

The letter indicated the silt/muck levels in our retention ponds received a grade "F" and immediate action needs to be taken, for the ponds to maintain adequate detention storage.

The 2 options presented are 1) change ponds to a naturalized "marsh-like" retention basin for a cost of $55K or 2) dredge the ponds for $110K that would have to happen every 15 years

They provide very few details about how the grades were determined, what would happen in the event of failure, or what options / methods were considered.

My fear is the subdivision will simply select option 1 because it is cheaper, these lakes have 6+lb bass and frankly backing to the pond was the only reason I purchased the home.

Interested in ANY thoughts more seasoned pond experts might have, does the cost seem high? could aggressive maintenance reverse the problem over time for less cost? etc

I don't know the exact measurements of the ponds but roughly calculated 9,000 sq yards or just under 2 total acres.

Thanks
Jay

I would select a diplomatic representative of your subdivision and nicely ask to see all test results, studies, etc.

How the municipality responds to the request will determine if you need to get an attorney involved, or find a friend on the city council.

There may be more to the story than meets the eye as in unsavory links of local government and a contractor that will reap a profit from the work. Unfortunately some parts of Illinois are known for corruption in local government.

Futhermore i can't imagine this kind if requirement in my state.

I fully agree with Sunil and Cecil.

First, it seems that those prices are extremely high for cleaning out a pond of that size. But, I learned years ago, that on-site evaluation is a must.

Secondly, across the nation, there are a lot of crazy things that have happened in the last dozen years at the very-local, local, county, state, and national level regarding waters. Every governing body seems to think they own and control all water in their jurisdictions. In my personal experience, the people making these regulations frequently have no knowledge of water management.

I don't know where you are in Illinois. But, I think I'd start with a call to our extremely good Pond Boss friends at Herman Brothers Lake and Land Management in the Peoria, Il area. They know the rules. They are well trusted. The whole group is just plain fun to be around. If available, try to talk to Nate.

Ken from WV

I'd totally ignore it.

Wow thanks everyone for the suggestions!

Sunil - I'm afraid I will be that representative, just have to work on the diplomatic part! I started a list of questions / requests.

catmandoo - I will contact Herman Brothers, Peoria is just over an hour away, hopefully they can provide some good info.

Yellow Jacket - My normal operandi is to totally ignore, but I'm afraid in this case my beautiful pond will be turned into a swamp and my property value will drop $15-20K

Cecil - Spot on, I added questions around the "who", my city / county clearly has a good ole boys network

They interestingly are asking for a 10 year tax increase of $165,000 or $16,500 per year ($150 x 110 residents) for their $55,000 marsh like option. The dredge option has a cost of $110,000 and a tax increase of $275,000.

Our subdivision has had a storm sewer problem, but in my opinion not caused by the retention ponds failing, rather our subdivision is surrounded by corn fields that runs off an amazing amount of (debris filled) water into our system. The failure was in storm water reaching the ponds not leaving them.

Thanks so much ... Any other thoughts are appreciated!

So, this storm water issue may have been what sparked the inquiry or investigation.

Can you think of anyone who would have been adversely affected, or anyone who would complain?

Sunil

Very possibly, I know there were 4 or 5 neighbors that have had water damage during the very heavy rains. I attached a link to a photo, but all of this flooding (in my opinion) occurs because the water runs off fields but can't get to the retention pond part of the storm sewer system.

http://s1040.photobucket.com/user/designteks/slideshow/

The red circles indicate where it floods, the red x's are impacted houses, and the blue S's are problem storm sewers ...

I know they tried to get the city to address the field runoff but was told it was too expensive (city cost not subdivision cost).

Sounds like someone who is knowledgeable and credible about water runoffs/flooding needs to get involved. Perhaps they may be able to help you convince the authorities issuing this, that their fix isn't the right one.

...and if it is backing up as a result of the pond, wouldn't adding a larger spillway be the solution. Just because you dig the pond deeper, doesn't mean that it will hold more water at runoff times. That would only help if the water level was lower before the rain. I get a kick out of people(and counties) who dig an already water filled ditch out deeper, thinking that when it rains, it will solve the problem of the ditch flooding over the banks!!!

There could be some issues if those storm drains enter the retention pond down low, at the base or bottom of the pond itself.

One of our retention ponds has two 3' culverts coming into it, and they are both at grade with the pond bottom.

Agree.

That could be the reason for the initial description of "create marsh or dredge". If the spillway has to be lowered to get the water down to a safe level for the drains to work properly, then it might create a marsh out of the pond. If they didn't want the marsh, they would need to dig it deeper.

A lot of us here would agree that it is more work(= more money) to rework an old pond, than it does to build a new one.

Do you have topographical maps to back up your claims? If you redo the retention ponds and the neighbors still flood then you'll have a whole new set of problems.

You'll know they are serious when you get a certified letter...until then, I'd not contact anyone about it.

YJ, I agree that staying silent/ignoring it is a very valid way to approach it.

Sometimes though, you don't want to train to get too far down the track.

Jay1 may be able to influence things early on vs. down the road.

Still though, what you suggest is a valid move.

Thanks for all the help and thoughts ... we have a meeting with the city (they scheduled not us) next week. Our plan is to ask a bunch of questions and position that there are better options to try and it should be their cost not ours.

Now that we are intimately involved, we'll require detailed updates!

How many 'friendlies,' sympathetic to the ponds, do you have in the neighborhood?

Are you guys well versed on the by-laws of your neighborhood?

I can't recall the formal name right now, but there is some kind of federal act or law that has bearing on the development of neighborhoods and what HOA's can and cannot do. It protects the land developer and the home owner. It might be something like the Community Development Act.

At any rate, how prepared you are could be the difference between truncating this pig right now, or going through an extended process.

This whole thing sounds like a serious mess.

Maybe somebody else on the forum can provide a little guidance, but it sure seems like you need strong and vociferous legal environmental counsel to represent you and your neighbors.

I wonder if when faced with the prospect of a $55k-$200k tax levy whether your HOA shouldn't hire an experienced attorney. It would seem to me a good use of funds.