Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Forage for LMB

Ok. A lot has been discussed about fish feeders and stocking ponds with fathead minnows or Golden Shiners in order to provide food for those of us who have LMB in our ponds. Mine is slightly smaller than two acres.

I have been trying to establish a golden shiner population in my pond, with my first stocking of 12 pounds of them this past spring. But, I believe not too many survived and I tried to get my fish supplier to get me some more for a late fall stocking. He hasn't been around for some reason. At any rate, can you folks give me your opinions on how important it is (or is not) for me to try to ensure live forage in the form of shiners or minnows?? I do have a healthy bluegill population and stocked some perch over the summer. Also, are you able to order some live fish and baitfish from somewhere? I live in Pa. Thanks!!

jones fish and lake management i believe delivers to Erie, you have to spend $150 for free delivery. i got my wipers and golden shinners there, the fish were all very healthy. they have web site. gl

Thanks for the tip, Ken.

Mark, in the SE US it is not at all necessary to have minnows, etc if you have a good bluegill population. I have seen some large bass come from properly managed ponds with just bluegill and largemouth. However I suggest there presence if trying to maximize bass growth.

Greg,
I have read alot of pros and cons for stocking gizzard shad in a lake as forage for lmb. My 8 acre lake is in northern MS and we have tried threadfins twice and they did not establish a reproducing population. We do everything possible to maximize our bluegill population (feed and fertilize) and remove all small bass, but still fight with stunted bass problems. I did catch an 8lb 13oz fat 23 inch bass this summer but that was probably a fluke. Have been wondering if it would make sense to stock gizzard shad since they are more cold tolerate to try to take a little pressure off of the bluegills and diversify my forage base. Does any of this make sense? If we could boost our forage base, I would also love to stock some hybrid striped bass for a fishing alternative to lmb.
Bill

Bill,
That 23 inch bass was 123% RW. A real fatty. That is pretty common for the few large bass you have to be really fat since they can eat the stunted bass and large bluegill. How did you stock the threadfin? Big ones(1.5-2") in the spring just prior to spawning is my recom. Did they establish only to die because of cold winter? If this is why then gizzard would be an option. Gizzard come with a more difficult management plan since they can reach large sizes. However they my be the best choice if you really want big bass.

Also have you harvested enough bass? Most people do not. These bass crowded ponds can be tough on shad with so much pressure on the forage. One more for you, what is the size class distribution of your bluegill? If you have a lack of 3-5 inchers you may want to pull out more bass and then stock intermediate bluegill.

The hybrid striped bass would be good with supplemental feeding and/or shad population. Of course this may lower the bass forage, and if trophy bass is your goal I wold not do it. If you want quality bass with a more diverse fisheries they are a cool addition.

Good luck, any ducks showing up in your area yet?

Mark, I emailed you a PDF file entitled Sportsfish Directory. At the bottom it has a listing of hatchies in PA by county. I found a guy that was about a 1/2 mile down the road. He was very helpful and since he was so close he didn't charge a delivery fee. He even suggested to use a small pond to stock fatheads so I wouldn't have to keep buying them.

Jimmy

Thanks, Jimmy. I did get your information and I see a few places near where my pond is at. I'll give them a try.

Mark, I'm down in Pittsburgh & our lake is in Somerset. This year we've worked with Keystone Aqualculture for various things. Ph # 717-834-6772. I was talking to the dude the week before last, and he still had pounds of shiners and fatheads. They delivered to me in Somerset several times over this past Fall '03.

greg, you may have said this before, but approximately how old should a pond be before shad are introduced (probably threadfin up here in northern arkansas)? my pond is about 1.5 years old....bluegill that old, and the bass stocked about 1 year ago. what about tilapia... can you tell i am impatient???!! p.s. i don't suppose i could catch a few of those bass and...say....bottle feed them could I ???!!! mark williams ilovefishingmark

mArk,
This spring is your best option. I normally let the bluegill establish then the next year stock the shad. My stocking plan in GA is fall-March bluegill/redear/fathead, then in spring bass then following spring threadfin shad. Some folks have started stokcing the shad prior to the bass and have had good bluegill and bass. I may try that out on my "impatient" clients.

You are timing it just right in my opinion to stock this spring. THis way you should not yet have a bass crowded situation thus better chance of shad establishment. I have a source in north AL that has some great shad, so let me know if you can;t find a good source.

Thanks, "Sunil." I doubt he would want to travel all the way up to erie, but if you think he might, let me know via e-mail.

The pond is frozen now, but not too thick. Maybe I will have to be patient and wiat until spring. As Greg mentioned, the bluegill I have in the pond should keep the bass boys busy if they hungry in their dormancy.

Have an old pond 2-2.5 acres have bass-bluegill-c-cat . feeding twice daily. The bass don't seem to ge very abundant , but have caught a few large one's. had 2000 t-shad stocked last spring but have not seen a single one. the pond is in east tx. so don't think i had a cold kill off.not much cover due to grass carp.would it be a waist of $ to add some fathead minnows,or try more bluegill, or t-shad again....Harvey

Harvey,
You probably don't have a forage fish problem. Sounds like a population dynamics problem. If you have adult bluegill, they are fed, and you added threadfin shad, you should have plenty of forage fish for bass. Stocking additional baitfish would be irrelevant, except to make you feel good.
If bluegill numbers are low, it's because predator numbers are too high. If threadfin shad don't exist it's because there's too many predators, or the shad were mishandled before or during stocking, and died quickly. And, if your water is gin clear, shad can be quickly eaten, shortly after stocking.
Do some length/weight work on your bass population...that will tell the tale.

Mark Williams, threadfins won't last in Northern Arkansas. In S. Illinois they could only survive in power plant cooling lakes.
Robert B

Thanks Robert...glad you said something...i guess eventually i will check into stocking gizzard shad or tilapia or ...just fly ol' Greg Grimes up here to tell me what the heck to do.

heck, let's just have a big ol get together down here with old bob lusk, greg (if he's not too busy sexing this spring), cecil, dudley, bill, rob, dave and the wholllleee gang!! think my wife would mind?!
mark w

Thanks Robert was not sure of success of cold winter surivivial of thredfin in north Arksansas. How deep is the lake Mark. SOme make it thru a normal winter in north GA at altitudes above 2000 ft. if the lake is deep (~20 ft.)

Greg, my pond is about 24-26 feet deep. i have been told to tell the corps it is only 24.5 feet deep if they ask though!! do you think the threadfin would make it here? i noticed what you said about the gizzard shad, and i am not too keen on that. greg, what is the scoop on tilapia. it seems to be avoided a lot on this site, but the name keeps popping up and i'm curious. thanks.

Hi Bob , it's posible i did have a t-shad die off since i have not seen a single one , should i try again if so whate time of year or water temp.also due to the water clarity and to late to fertilize would aqua shade be recomendid . I do have some algie growing in the shallows do the water being about 2' low . as of 2-13-O3 water temp. is 50 degrees. in canton tx. Thanks Harvey

Great idea, Mark! We'll all plan to spend a couple months at Bob's place this coming summer! Of course your wife won't mind. She'll be with you. And we'll bring all the kids and pets. Bob's a real people person and he'll LOVE it. Bet when he sees my three goats he'll just have to rush out to get a few of his own. Wonder if he REALLY stocked those hammerheads.

Yeah, I got a hammerhead for you!
Ya'll come...bring all 13 kids and the motorhome. We'll treat ya so many ways you're bound to like at least one of 'em.
I thought we are all headed to Mark's hacienda in north Arkansas. He's invited us, but we have to leave all the young'uns at home. In July...
Harvey...it's likely you had a shad die-off and just didn't know it. Restock next spring, when temps rise, and you have a good bloom. If you have algae this winter, it will come and go. But, pond dye could be helpful during cooler months. Once temps rise above 60, consistently, plan to evaluate and possibly fertilize, before shad stocking.

Mark sorry just read your question. I think with your depth it maybe worth a shot with the threadfin. How much do they cost in that area? If above $1,500 I would hold off Or I can get you a price. tilapia, man i can only dream. Not allowed in GA unles your pond is a closed system (no outflow water). Basically only allowed in indoor recircualitng systmes for aquaculture. Now across the border in AL you can stock them how you wish. Not sure of status in Ark. I shocked up some good ones in Ray Scott's lake. He thought is was a big bonus for his bass growth. Other folks will be able to answer your questions better. Tiliapia would be better however if your were farther south. Seems you would have a limited time frame to utilize them.

Greg,

Curious about talapia as forage for largemouth bass. Would they work as far south as south georgia? What is the downside? Would combining them with threadfin work?

Also, thanks for your earlier response on planting rice in pond.

Cliff, Did you read the post above? Maybe I was not clear on the point. Tilapia are illegal in GA. THey would work great in your neck of the woods. If you did stock them under the radar they would be some of the best forage besides bluegill you could ask for. Got a feeder? they eat fish food as well. However I can not be involved with them for obviuos reasons. Almost forgot, yes they would work with threadfin shad. Not sure of the consequences if they are illegally stocked???

Thanks. I obviously did'nt read previous comments well enough. What stuck in my mind was outflow of water, and no water flows out of my pond so I was thinking maybe it would be okay.