Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Help - having trouble getting anybody to ID this!

Hi - I had this post in the identifing plant section, 51 looks but not even one suggestion! So, I thougt that I would repost here.

Maybe the pictures are not too good? Let me know if I need to take more. I suspect this is a common pond weed in the midwest, but maybe I am wrong! Thanks again for your help.
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I am thinking Southern Naiad or some form of pondweed (busy pond weed?
http://s1156.photobucket.com/albums/p580/jrwpmw/?action=view&current=da2ec49d.jpg

http://s1156.photobucket.com/albums/p580/jrwpmw/?action=view&current=6e1501d4.jpg

http://s1156.photobucket.com/albums/p580/jrwpmw/?action=view&current=aacf9c7b.jpg

I live in MO, this is growing like crazy. It's submerged, attached to the bottom; but not firmly. So you can rake it up or easily pull it up. It grows to the top in shallower water 1-2" deep, but is also in water up to 4" deep - but not to the top (at least yet). This is very thick and dense, like raking tall grass!

My next question is - what is the cheapest (lowest cost) chemical/herbacide that I can but to treat this?

Thank you as always!

Link> Southern Naiad

I was afraid of that! Not a cheap copper sulfate fix! So, what is my cheapest chemical control method? Thanks!

"Cheap" is a very relative concept, and greatly depends on the time-frame involved. The "cheapest" per-application treatments usually turn out to be the most expensive treatments (cumulatively) over an extended period of time - especially when labor is factored into the equation.
Also, many variables will dictate your available treatment-options - regardless of their expense or economy (i.e. general pond design, flow-dynamics, fish species present, relative plant biomass, aeration/O2 levels, etc etc).
IMO, you need more than a forum-based assessment to yield proper guidance. In what part of MO is the pond located?

Good questions! Labor is not an issue - but manual removal is not an option, I tried!
I'm in the st louis area, pond is about 2 acres. 30% is less than 3' the rest 4' - 8" approximately.

I would like to treat chemically. I will be taking ph levels this weekend, and may begin a fertilization program in the spring - too late now due to the weed issue.

The water is very clear, partially filled by well water. No filtration / areator. Hope that helps some!

PM sent

The pond has a large percentage of shallow water and very likely clear water due to a large amount of naiad growing. Bottom growing plants tend to promote / produce clear water. Clear water allows good light penetration deep into the water thus allowing lots of bottom plants to grow. Knowing this why would one not expect to have a lot of bottom vegetation? Long term fix IMO - deepen all the areas less than 6 ft deep. Dyes help reduce light penetration in water less than 3ft deep. Plankton algae blooms also are often used to reduce light penetration. Plankton blooms can be 'tricky" to get established and to maintain for the long term.

Kelly is the resident expert at chemical management of aquatic vegeetation - heed his experienced and valuable advice.

Thanks, deeping the pond shallow ends is indeed the long term fix. But I suppose that I would have to drain the pond down and hire some escavation company.

I would think you could not get heavy equipment in there until weeks after a drain down due to mud and muck? I wonder if you can use a escavator from shore with some type of extended shovel? For example, a 40ft reach (shovel) used around the shoreline could deepen over 70% of the shallow areas without draining (the pond is sort of oval shape, with the shallow end about 160' across at the widest end). Now that would leave a shallower "hump" in the middle of the shallow end; but honestly that would be OK. Weeds could grow there freely, great habatit! Yet, I would be able to fish from the shore much easier and have no problems boating away from shore (now too many weeds, I need to paddle out before using the trolling motor!

Also, would you/anybody have even a ballpark idea of what that might cost?

Thanks

As far as digging it deeper, I can give you some basic advice. They do have extended reach excavators, so that is an option. They are normally a more expensive route to go. I would look into hiring someone with a dragline. Very effective for what you want to do.

Both methods would require access to the pond by means of a flat area next to the water so they can work. Not all ponds have this, contact some excavator companies to look over the site. You can do this with the pond full of water, but it is always easier to do if it is drained as much as possible. The muck and dirt that is stirred up while doing any of these things will not be good for the fish that are in there.

A lot of people will not dig in wet muck and water .... it is very hard on heavy equipment. That wet soupy muck destroys bearings.

Not trying to highjack your post but I too have a problem with Southern Niad. Would draining a pond down during any certain time of year have any effect on it? Good or Bad.

My experience has been no. My lake dropped well past the Naiad last year, and it's back in the same areas again this year.

It took longer to recover, but it did come back.

Yes, the muck is hard to work with. Once you swing it out to dry land where do you put it. It will level and spread out in great distances from where you drop it. Or you can truck it, and that costs more.

With the dragline, all you have in the water is a bucket with cables. Not nearly as problematic to bearings. And if you have to reach really far, you can attach the cable to the opposite shore and go all the way across the pond with the dragline bucket. The dragline bucket uaually has holes near the top to let the water flow back out to the pond as it is pulled up, keeping only dirt inside. I am not positive about this, but I would think that this would allow alot of the fluid muck to spill out with it and keeping the more solid dirt inside the bucket. Thus you would be able to put it on dry ground without as much spreading out. This also lets you work in deeper water/without draining, compared to a regular backhoe/trackhoe. However, not as effective on removal of muck, but it accomplishes a deeper pond all the same.

Draglines move less dirt in the same amount of time than an excavator. There are long reach excavators out there, some have 70' sticks. Deeper around the shore with a shallow hump in the center is fine- I know of one lake that has a 2' shallow flat area in the middle and the BG use that as their spawning bedding area.

A dam could by built around the pond a couple feet high to keep the muck from running back into the pond. But, don't forget you can dump the muck as far away from the pond as you are reaching into the pond to get it - even further depending where the excavator is located at.

Another reason for draining the pond is seeing where you are working.