Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Small North East PA Pond

hey guys.. I am totally new to this. I just purchased a home on a little over 3 acres. The home elevation is well above where the pond would be built. I have a few questions before I get started.

Running through the edge of my property is a small stream that flows all year. The stream is 3-5 foot wide and a trickle to a 2-3ft deep with some deacent depth holes. The stream does has aquatic life, frogs, minnows...etc.

I have 2 ideas, not sure if either idea is legal or a deacent idea.

1. Divert the stream with a pipe into the dug out pond and then pipe the water back into the stream before my property line ends. I would not be diverting the entire flow of the stream, but enough to keep fresh water in the pond.

2. Near the end of the property, I would dam the area up. With this idea, I would no need to divert the stream in any manner. I would then have a spillway bck into the creek basin. I believe I would still need to dig a hole for the pond.

I would like a small pond, somewhere around 40X30ft. I would like it hold trout. I planned on a depth of around 8-12ft.

A buddy of mine has a similar pond, but the stream run directly down the middile of the yard and through the pond, I can not do that due to the location of the stream. I will upload pics tomorrow.

Thank you

It will work but be careful about diverting trout streams to ponds for legal reasons. I don't know how it works in PA but here in Indiana diverting streams is a really big no no.

I second Cecil's warning. You might turn your land/water into theirs.

Hmm. Thanks guys. I will have 2 do some research on that topic. How would one suggest keeping a natural flow of water into the pond if I cannot use the stream water? Would it be wise to choose the second option and just damn the creek and make a spillway, therefore I do not divert any water from the stream?

Brooktrout,

I agree with my friends above. Before you divert the stream for a pond, you might find this a rather interesting read. Although the case was finally thrown out by the courts, the the legal fees cost Josh and his wife a lot of money. There is a lot more to the story than the court case, but ...

Josh Hedrick and WV Court Case Regarding Trout Stream

Sorry for such a negative repsonse to your first post on the Pond Boss forum. However, welcome to Pond Boss, and please feel free to ask a lot more questions.

Regards,
Ken

Ken,

Better a little "negative" than getting into some serious hot water.

Welcome aboard Brook Trout. Anyone that goes by Brook trout is fine with me.

BTW there is a woman in Elkhart, Indiana whose first name is Brook and her last name is Trout. I kid you not.

No worries guys, that's why I posted here. I Need this type of feedback. I need to know what I can do and what I cannot do. I need to check with local zoning permits and with the pa game and fish about my option or even if I have any option. I really hope
I can pipe a little bit of water into the pond and back into the creek. If not, then I
Hope I can dam it up. Only time will tell.

Thanks for the good read. I cannot believe how messed up the system is. Sad, but true.

Keep the comments coming, the more info the better.
Thanks guys

Brook trout? Haha I love it! That name is simply amazing.

Whereas in Oklahoma, the law has a different view. It just varies by location.

Also, be aware that anything in the stream, be it good or bad will end up in your pond sooner or later if you let the stream (or even part of it) flow thru the pond.

I hope someone from PA pops in and gives some advice from experience.

esshup, I wont mind that! Im trying to create a trout pond.

BT,
I built my pond 2 � years ago. Since their was an intermittent stream running through the pond site it took about two years to complete the permitting process.

Basically you need to do two things. First call your county NRCS office and arrange to have someone visit your site for an evaluation. In my case the main concern was whether or not there were �wetlands� present. I wanted verification from a government agency that their were not.

If all goes well you will then have to contact PA DEP, explain what you plan to do, and ask them to send a GIF (General Information Form). Once you fill out and return this form the DEP is supposed to notify all relevant governmernt agencies involved. You will then recieve an Environmental Assesment Form from the DEP/Army Corps of Engineers requesting more specific documentation such as topo maps, site photographs, erosion control plan, impact on downstream properties etc. Be thourough in providing this info the first time around and make sure you keep a copy of the whole package. Mine was misplaced and it would have taken weeks to recompile it if I hadn�t keep a copy. Also get the name and phone of anyone you talk to so you have a single contact in any agency you deal with.

Eventually you should recieve a letter of approval from both the DEP and the AcoE.

Hope that helps.
Good Luck

Jsec,

I would assume there is a difference between an intermittent stream and a permanent one right?

Not so with the COE - either can be jurisdictional.

Jsec- What was the concern with "wetlands" being present?

Did you divert the stream in any manner?

Thanks for all the great info!

BT,

If the area had been declared a "wetlands" either I would have had to create a wetland of equal area to compensate for the one which would be destroyed by the pond construction ($$$) or the permit would be denied.

The stream was not diverted, it is the inflow for the pond. The ACoE stipulated that I could not disturb more than 350 lineal feet of the stream bed so in essence I flooded 350 ft of stream bed by building the dam. The stream by the way is quite small. In the wet season it's about an inch deep and maybe 2 ft wide.

Get yourself a USGS topo map of your location and look to see if your stream is shown with the dreaded blue line. If it isn't the going should be easier.

Cecil,

I believe a free flowing stream, especially if is was "named" or "classified", would be much harder if not impossible to have permitted.

I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier -- but contact your local Pennsylvania USDA-NRCS representatives. They maybe from the government, but they really are there to help you. Most everyone I know who has used their services has been satisfied.

Another place to ask for guidance is from the Pennsylvania Extension Service, which I believe is probably at Penn State. I don't know your lead Extension Service agriculturist, but here is WV, we have one of the best anywhere. I'll be in a meeting with him on Friday, and I'll ask if he knows who his counterpart is in PA. In the mean time, you might contact the guy in this link: Penn State Aquaculture Extension. All of the state extension agriculturists I've met over the years have been people with a real passion for providing great guidance.

Lastly, you might try the Pennsylvania Aquaculture Association. Again, I don't know much about the PAA, but I'm the VP of the WVAA, and between people like me, our pond suppliers, and pond builders, we can usually get answers to people about most pond questions in WV. You might have similar luck with the PAA.

Pennsylvania Aquaculture Association
C/O Perdue Specialty Feeds
139 S. First St., Catawissa, PA 17820
Tel. (800) 358-6595
Fax. 717.356.2341
Email: [email protected]
President: Andy Melick

Regards,
Ken

You need to contact PA DER. They have very strict guidelines regarding excavating within 50' of wetland. It sounds like the stream would be considered wetlands.