Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction New Member in SE WV/VA

Well, I had a sudden realization a while ago. Why should I spend the money only to settle with getting some property that has a "bad" pond or one situated in a horrible spot.

So I got to thinking, just have one dug. So I googled it and every single link/post on any site point to this as the place to gain knowledge.

I just bought the book "Pond...want one" by Mr Lusk and look forward to getting and reading it.

I am currently deployed to Afghanistan with the mighty 82nd ABN Division and the thoughts of the "perfect pond" make the days go faster.

Thanks for this great site and all the great input/advice.

Mike

Welcome to Pond Boss Mike!

First of all, I want to thank you for your service to this country.

Maybe you can tell us about the goals of your pond or are you in the very beginning stages of planning with no property yet and just this idea of how you want to make a pond yours?

Mike,

I got your private message which is similar to your introduction posting. Hopefully you won't mind that I answer the PM publicly, because you have posed some extremely good questions. I am also sending a separate PM.

Please feel free to ask lots of questions. The answers help everyone.

It is also good to know that you have a little bit time to get your mind off your duties to be able to dream about things like ponds, and that you have access to the Internet. You guys are greatly appreciated for all you do.



Bob's book is a great place to start. Mike Otto has some excellent soils info in it also.

Soils in Western Virginia and West Virginia vary greatly, even over very short distances. At our previous residence, about four miles from here, our 12 acres went from steep rocky outcroppings on the south side, to a ridge that was covered with 200-feet of coarse white sand. As the ridge dropped away on the north side, it changed to several hundred feet of heavy yellow clay (where our pond was located) over granite, and finally to deep loam over granite.

The old Soils and Conservation Service, which is now part of the US Department of Agriculture, started extensive soil mapping about 80 years ago. They continue to update the maps, and these maps are now available online at NRCS Web Soil Survey. Most of these are topographic maps at a 1:20000 scale, so you can easily determine soil types down to the sub-acre. Because they are topo maps, you can also determine the watershed area for collecting water. If the site doesn't seem to be working, look at the operating schedule. They disable it for frequent scheduled updates.

Mine runoff will not generally be a problem, even in the Beckley area. We actually have very pristine water, particularly for small ponds. My pond is fed strictly by runoff, and even it's pH stays very close to 7.0 at all times, although we have acid rain.

Because of the terrain in most of West Virginia, there are millions of separate watersheds that eventually join to produce the many creeks and rivers. There are also an incredible number of springs in the mountains. For a WV pond, you would be getting your water either from watershed runoff or from a spring. It is never good to dam a creek because during heavy rains they will overpower your dam.

Particularly in the Beckley area, the mountainsides are covered with hardwoood forests which make tremendous water cleansing filters. As you look for property, it is just important to know what is further up the mountain that might affect your water. However, with all of the ridges and hollows that we have, you can almost always find a piece of property that includes a ridge with a good watershed to feed your pond.

As for clay -- both Western VA and WV are great places for ponds. There is so much clay, in so many places, that getting drainfield areas with good percolation is difficult. There is nothing better for pond building.

We are also fortunate in this area west of the Blueridge, as the mountains seem to suck the moisture out of the clouds that pass by. Even during severe drought periods, we always seem to have enough water to keep the mountain ponds nearly full.

Lastly, WV is extremely fortunate to have one of the best agriculturists anywhere, and he heads the WVU Aquaculture Extension Service programs. Dr. Ken Semmens knows the state's waters and soils better than anyone. He knows pond building inside and out. He keeps pretty busy, but he is always available to help out and answer questions, particularly by e-mail. Here is a link to his organization: West Virginia Aquaculture Extension Service. Feel free to contact him. Just tell him that "Ken from Pond Boss" referred you.

Stay safe!

Regards,
Ken

@Ken, WOW I didnt expect so much but I am greatful. Sounds like the general area will work perfectly so now I just have to find some dirt to call mine! Definately good to hear about teh mining as that was a significant concern. Still have lots of reading/learning to do and the willingness of people like you makes it much easier, thank you again.

@jludwig, goals...well honestly I would like to have a decent size (4-5 acres) pond for my kids to enjoy and for me to pull decent sized LMB out of, they dont have to be trophies but as always I would not be mad if I reeled in a nice 9lb'er. I grew up with my old man, traveling from where I grew up in MD down to Currituck Sound, NC back in the early 80s to fish for LMB. We would make 4-5 trips a year until the grass died out and those are memories I will never forget.....I want my kids to remember the same PLUS once I retire from the Army, I want to be able to sit and enjoy life, on the pond.

They used to grow some real monster bass back in the 80's in Currituck Sound. Now it's a bit too salty and the grass the bass liked doesn't do so well... Darn hurricanes!

NCMike, thanks for the service. Stick around a while, this place has the best information on ponds that you can find anywhere. The people here aren't bad either!

When do you expect to be back stateside to look for a piece of dirt to call home?

CJBS, yes they did. I remember my Dad pulling in 12-13 pounders at least once a trip. I think the biggest he got down there was around 15lbs. That is where I grew to love LMB, my biggest I ever caught was just under 5lbs but to a 7-8 year old that is a BIG fish! After Currituck died out, we started doing more SMB fishing in the upper Potomac near Paw-paw. SMB in a river is a whole lotta fun too!

esshup, You are right about the amount of information and the quality of folks here. I havebeen on the site to long but already have 1000 times more info than before I found you guys. I have been "looking" for property online for a while now but I will be back in August/September time...cant come fast enough!

Learn what you can on line here, stay safe over there and get back!

Mike --

One more thing to think about. Think small while you are thinking big.

A 4-5 acre pond may be great. But, it becomes a mono-culture. Several smaller ponds could be much more fun, and they would really add to diversity.

As you drive the North-South corridor between I-81 in VA and the Kentucky and Ohio borders to the west side of WV, you will see many thousands of ponds. By far, the majority are 1/2 to 1 acre. These ponds produce a lot of fish and fun.

Also, because of the topography of West Virginia, several smaller ponds may be far easier and cheaper to build, than one large pond. Dams over 25 feet get the Army Corps of Engineers involved.

Think about a pond just for big bass, another just for big bluegill, and another just for experiments.

Ken

Catmandoo has a point, think of this as well, a small pond with a problem costs a lot less to fix than a big pond with a problem (think invasive plants or fishery unbalance). To have all ponds go "bad" at once would be unlikely if diversified.

If I had reasonable topology and did not live on a hill I would definitely have more than one. A quality swimming pond, a good fishing pond or two, and another shallow one dedicated to amphibians, small fish, and wildlife.

I didnt even think about multiple little ponds....that isnt a bad idea. I like the idea of a big pond because of the aesthetics but the smaller one would probably be more enjoyable. A LMB pond for me, BG pond for the kids and another just in case sounds interesting.

I am not going to lie, I saw teh Krehbiel project:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110981#Post110981

And honestly fell in 10000% love with what they accomplished. I mean it is AMAZING. If I could replicate it perfectly I would without hesitation.

I guess it will ultimately come down to what works best on the property I am able to find/afford.

Just curious as to why multiple little ponds would be cheaper than a big one? Seems the oppisite because you have to have 2-3 dams etc.

I certainly don't want to discourage you from building one large pond. For anyone who has ever visited Sunil's pond, which is in the mountains of south western Pennsylvaia, it can provoke serious jealousy. I beleive his pond is seven acres, and he has built an incredible fishery that includes beautiful largemouth and smallmouth bass, hybrid striped bass, yellow perch, bluegill, trout, and I'm not sure what all else. I beleive his pond was built by the government many years ago, so their budget was a little different than most mortals.

There are a number of reasons that make it more feasible, particularly in Western VA, WV, western MD, and southern PA, to build several small ponds. One is certainly the topography. There is little advantage to building a pond much deeper than 12 feet. Without extensive water movement, such as from aerators, the pond stratifies. The bottom portion of a deep pond becomes an oxygen free zone that will not support fish. Trying to build a five acre pond in WV typically would mean a very high dam and a very large volume of deep water. I don't know the requirements, but when water volume and dam height get to a certain point, you are required to get the Army Corps of Engineers involved in the design and construction. From all I've heard, that is not a pleasant experience.

It certainly is possible to find 5 acres of relatively flat land. But when you do, you will have to excavate and move dirt over that entire five acres. For instance, you will probably need to strip the top soil from the entire area. Moving dirt is expensive. Secondly, if you find five acres of flat land, will you have an adeqaute watershed to feed it that will not completely overwhelm it during heavy rains?

Cascaded ponds of a half-acre to 2 acres are generally more practical in this area.

Keep dreaming of ponds. It will keep you sane.

Ken

I think part of the problem with the size right now is it is hard for me to visualize a 2 acre pond versus a 5 acre pond. Sitting in the dirt with a barren wasteland makes scale seem....challenging.

I will keep on keepin on and try to find a good lot. 5 acres still sounds better visually BUT if it isnt practical then I think 2 1-2 acre pond would suit me just fine.

I'm in favor of multiple ponds too. Wishful thinking here, but even a 1/4 to 1/2 ac pond that is well water fed for a 'year round cold water fish fishery, i.e. Trout.

I think it's easier to have multiple ponds with different species in each pond. Easier to manage, and a LOT easier to deal with if there is a problem with a pond, be it fish related or even structural integrety pond wise (look at Rockytoppers drain tile blow-out)

Area wise, a 1 acre pond would be a rectangle that is about 208 feet on each side. A 2 acre pond would be about 300' on each side. (football field square)

A square football field is pretty darn big.....what kind of volume of fish can that support? You seem to have a prett diverse species breakout for a 1 3/4 acre pond!

Mike,

A standard football field, including the end zones, is 3/4 acres. My pond is just a little smaller than that. I've raised some trophy catfish and trophy bluegill in there. I also have redeared sunfish, largemouth bass, hybrid striped bass, and black crappie. Most winters I also put in about 25-50 trout. The pond provides a lot of fish frys, fish boils, and smoked fish from April through October, and a lot of fun for family and friends.

Size doesn't matter!

Ken

I'll bet that in a 1 3/4 ac pond it could hold almost 1,000# of fish provided you aerated and fed them. But, going with high fish densities is like walking a tightrope, sometimes you fall off.

I try to manage my pond for the lowest water level that it will see, since it's a groundwater pond and will vary in depth/size depending on the groundwater level (no clay to line the pond when constructed).

One more crazy thought before heading to bed.

I post this with nothing but admiration for what Scott Krehbie and his family built in Kansas, as you linked to above. It is an incredibly beautiful family homestead.

Just think about the possibility of taking a huge rolling pin to flatten West Virginia. I believe WV might be far larger than Kansas -- maybe even larger than Texas. Unfortunately, our WV ponds would now be like Kansas ponds. That is not all bad, but diversity is really good.

I enjoy having multiple ponds, and the freedom to experiment that they provide, BUT.... it also means a heck of a lot more work, more expense, and more worry when mother nature gets adventuresome.

We are lucky enough to have multiple ponds. They are a little more spread out than one would like but each pond offers some different fishing chances.

You have a great point and frankly I like the hills we have in WV! Thats why I am going to retire there.

I have to retract what I posted above. An American football field is larger than 3/4 acres. It is about 1.3 acres. Somehow, I obviously mis-calculated.



Sorry.

Yep you miscalculated. 300 ft by 160 ft is 1.101928374655647xxxxxxxxxxxx ft(approximately).

Close enough for government work catmandoo.....