Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations When in doubt, ask the experts ....

I have searched just about every post on this site, and have learned much. Our pond is finally finished and filling up, and now it is time to tackle the stocking of fish.

Here's a link to a image of the completed pond. It's 3 acres when full.
http://www.sofnet.com/~robertg/full%20shot.jpg

There is an exsisting LMB population confined to the rear of the pond, moved there before renovation. The water level has increased about 2' so I'm sure some of the smaller LMB have made it into the main body. When full, this pond will provide general LMB fishing for us, 14" to 16" fish and the chance to catch a lunker. We have a head start on the lunkers as they are confined to the rear in the exsisting population.

Question : Should I stock say 500 adult CNBG in the main section, with some FH, with the hopes of a successful spawn in spring 2006 ? And then add 200 adult LMB say in June 2006 ? Will they spawn enough off spring in 3 months? Will there be enough forage for those bass and the exsisting population if the water is up ?

The fish truck wants to stock all the fish at one time to make a special order. I'm thinking we are stocking bass and they have no grub.

Could also mix in some smaller CNBG with the adults for forage, but that would drive up the total numbers of stocked CNBG.

Any ideas guys ? Could sure use some advise.

My concern is the coppernose bluegill will even survive in Missouri. I know Malone and Sons has die offs as far south as Arkansas if they get any ice, and although brief don't you get ice in winter?

Hello Cecil,

Yes we do ice over at times, pond iced over twice last winter for up to a week. I was not aware of CNBG dying because of ice over. I'm dealing with Dunn's out of OK., that's what they carry other then HBG, and I don't want those.

To every solution, another problem.

Bob, deal with someone else if they don't have what you need. Stock the pond on your terms and schedule, not the fish sellers.

It might be best to add bluegills and not add any bass. You have an existing population. They will spawn.

I'm not sure in your area whether I would stock the bluegills now or just wait until Spring.

Bob :

Am I mixed up or did you add BG to the back part of pond to feed the bass ? If so can you let the fish in the back into main pond and then close it off until you can grow out some BG and RE in the back and then open it again to the main pond? If you can do that then you can add some adult BG and RE to the back as well as some 2in. now. I agree with Cecil I would get my fish (regular BG) from a different source if Dunn's does not have them. CNBG are a Florida strain of BG and do not do well in real cold water. Their range is like that of fla. bass --North of the Mo./Ark line they are at risk to cold water/ice over. ewest

Dave, the bass population we saved was not very big, hence the stocking of bass to improve the fishing. I understand that they will spawn but if it's going to take years to improve the fishing, why not jump start it, that's my thinking. Wouldn't mind harvesting a bit in the future to control numbers, I just don't want to over stock it.

Did a google search and found a fisheries here in the Ozarks with BG's and hopefully a northern strain of LMB, I'll have to call them. So thankful for Cecil's insight on the CNBG, that would have been a costly mistake.

Hi ewest,
Your not mixed up, but I didn't "add" BG, we moved them with the LMB from the exsisting pond. The only thing I "added" was some FH's to tie them over. About 30 lbs last month. Have no idea how many BG are in there, mortality rate was very high during the move of BG's. Lost over 200 of them.

There wouldn't be any way to transfer from the back to the front with any amount of control. There's just a big rock pile seperating the cross over. One more good rain and I have one pond. The big fish, 2lbs + won't be able to cross over for a while but the 8" to 10" will, and may be now.

I just don't know if 2" BG's would survive and spawn before the pond is full and the LMB are throughout. 5" to 7" BG, no problem, right ?

What would be the advantage to mixing in the RE ? As opposed to straight BG. The RE do cost quite a bit more.

Bob, you might contact Ensley Fish Farm in Tishimingo, Oklahoma. I've never dealt with them but have heard good things.

Bob, RES are also called shellcrackers for their propensity to eat pond snails and other shellfish, which are sometimes parasitic to fish, i.e the worms we sometimes see when cleaning fish. Far that reason, they are often recommended for ponds at about 1/4 the numbers of BG.

My personal experience, also reported by some others, is that my RES simply disappeared about a year after stocking. Don't know what happened to them, but the experience was repeated in another pond. Hopefully that won't happen to you.

Where in the Ozarks are you located? I was raised in that country as a child and fished all over it. Great place in America.

Bob :

With that being the situation I would look for a source of regular BG 3-5 in. to be added about one mth. before your 1st BG spawn this spring. Be sure to get them from a source you trust and with like water temps. and ask if they have spawned yet that spring. If you start early and tell the hatchery what you are doing they should be able to help. Most of the time around here if you try to buy the 1-2in. BG they come mixed with RE at a rate of 75% BG -- 25% RE as ML states and at the same price. After that size they become hard to find from hatcheries as the are harder to grow on pellets. You can also try in the mean time catching a few adult BG from good sources around your area and transporting them to your pond. If you need more info let us know. ewest

You know ML, sometimes I think stocking RES in a new pond could be pretty futile. I suspect it takes a while for a pond to build up a forage base for them in some areas.

Mine also disappeared. I don't think they eat only snails. At the same time, it is my understanding that bluegill also eat snails.

2 cents on RES...when RES stocked at 20% and 80% bluegill they seem to do fine for us. Of course they reproduce only once and stock fewer nubers so there are less of them when compared to bluegill. They grow quite large. However many folks report never catching them but when we shock they have plenty. My point is they are more diifcult to catch you need to fish on the bottom. I think they prosper when they have snails but do fine without them as well.

Agree with Greg. More difficult to catch, grow large, maybe will cross with BG in small pond. What a treat. Fish deep with a worm.

BUrger they will cross at times. Usually when we get up/down warm/cold spells in the spring that does not allow redear to spawn the month prior to bluegill spawn. Then they nest near each other at the sametime and it happens. Pretty cool looking fish. You would think they might be large but usually the hybrid in my experience is small.

Greg's post on shocking did remind me that when we shocked our larger pond last spring we did see a couple of RES...medium sized ones, but RES nonetheless...however never have caught a one... Maybe because of the type of fishing we do.

Great responses, thanks to all.

Ok, I found a good source for the 3" to 5" BG come early spring. The hatchery is about 2 hr's from here and is also used by MDC for their stocking programs. Very nice people, and that's a good thing. Also has the northern strain LMB which we wanted.

They did suggest adding in some Golden Shiners as an additional forage base. I've noticed much talk about Tilapia on this forum, and not having much experience in this field, I figured I throw that out there for response.

Is a golden shiner a gold fish ? I think not but don't know

Meadowlark, I'm in the Southwest corner of Missouri in Barry county. South of Joplin, west of Springfield, north of Table Rock Lake.

ewest, once again, great points and great ideas. I can always count on you to come up with something good. I'll be sure that the BG are not spawned out come spring. They usually don't bed here until mid April or May. Will they spawn sooner in the hatchery ? I'm assuming their water temps will be close to my ponds water temps that time of year.

Not to sure about introducing BG from another source, alot of problems can arise with that practice. To much money and time invested to get a diseased fish introduced, hatchery will be fine.

Bob,

My Mother's family lived outside of Ava and then near Gainesville. I've fished Table Rock many times and also the areas toward Mountain Home Ark. Really is God's Country.

ML,
Yes it is God's country, and lots of great people also. You know your neighbor, and your neighbor knows you.

He just can't fish on my pond !!!!

The Golden Shiner is NOT a Goldfish: GShiner ID & Facts

They are good forage fish if you are emphasizing on bass.

BG also like 1 to 2 in. golden shiners.

BM and Greg :

Here are several links where we discussed the question of BG x RES crosses last may. The last post on the second link has other links. I have not seen a lot ( est. 30 ) but the ones I have seen are large beautiful fish and all male. To my knowledge I have never seen a female BG x RES cross. Info from a prior post by Dave Willis below.

Study done by W. F. Childers of the Illinois Natural History Survey [Bulletin Volume 29, Article 3, 1967; Hybridization of four species of sunfishes (Centrarchidae)].
Here are the sex ratios (percent male) that he got with various hybrid crosses. The male parent is listed first. When he had more than one trial, I put the number in parentheses following the average.

Redear X Bluegill 97 (3)
Bluegill X Redear 97

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001622;p=2

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001885;p=2

Bob here is another link to go with Theo's on GS.

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=276