Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations My pellet vs no pellet fed LMB

I planted six LMB from a friends pond last summer. This spring I planted 20 LMB from the fish farm. Probably 12 of the fish farm LMB will take pellets, none of the ones from my friends pond will. While they grew a couple inches this year none of the LMB from the other pond are very fat. The pellet fed bass are hogs, with the largest 4-5 going from 6-7 inches this spring to 11 inches plus now.

Should I cull the bass that wont take pellets this fall? I did have a bass spawn so there will be a bunch of little ones next spring if they survive the winter.

Also when do LMB get the big stripe along their side usually? Year three?
The bass from the other pond
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
This is one of the big pellet fed ones
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

Pellet fed vs non fed is really an amazing difference, isn't it?

What are your goals for the pond? If you want big bass, I would take out the non-pellet eaters. Although I would be tempted to get one more year's spawn out of them for genetic diversity (honestly, if you started removing them now, some would probably still be present to spawn next year).

If I wanted to be bass crowded for big bream management, I would leave them in, at least until they passed 15"-16" or so. The first bass is thin, but about what my average bass crowded pond LMB looks like (excet for MY Aquamax LMB eaters). Thin but not scarily so.

P.S. What is your forage base situation like?

I would rather have big bass in the pond, with lots of BG so I can catch them and have a meal of BG occasionally.

The lack of bream is what is making me think about taking the bass out. I only have 25 in the pond (1/2 acre), and one NP. However they have wiped out all my GSH and FH this summer. I have quite a few BG and LMB minnows swimming around, but thats it for forage and there is a long winter ahead.

I believe that the black stripe is very distinguished when they hatch. No more than a few days into their lives.

That black stripe is the lateral line and they have it from very early as it is a part of the sensory organs. It acts to pick up vibrations. It is not always black but is there. Color or lack thereof is governed by many things so it might not even show. Here are a couple of pics.

I noticed that all the fry I have all have a very distinct stripe on them, but all the ones from the farm did not. I guess it is a good thing I had them in there to mix the genetics up a bit.

Thanks for the info. So whats the consensus, take the LMB out now or let them go until they spawn in the spring?

For what it's worth, feed-trained largemouth grow faster initially but top out smaller than non-feed-trained. Probably has something to do with larger non-feed-trained bass getting more from a 6" or 7" bluegill or GSH than what they would get from several pellets; the biologists who authored the study I believe theorized as much but I wouldn't swear to it. But I did read such a study recently.

Partially correct as I understand it, Walt. Pellet feeders including Cecil have reported a "wall" (circa 6 lbs, IIRC) that bass feeding exclusively on pellets get stuck at.

1) This info was with smaller trout or Aqaumax 600 pellets; I don't believe any wall has been established yet for the new Aquamax Largemouth pellets, but expect it would be higher due to the improved nutrition and much larger pellet size involved.

2) The reported wall was for bass eating only pellets, not pellets plus forage. I strongly suspect that LMB, like BG, will grow the most on good forage plus (properly sized and formulated) pellets.

I have never seen a feed trained LMB stay only on pellets when there is live prey around. They start eating natural food and supplement with pellets. In that situation I would be surprised if there is an upper limit on size other than the fish's genetic potential. IIRC AM LMB pellets have the same nutrient content as RT (it was based on lab analysis of RT contents). There are some very big LMB in Calif and elsewhere that get that way feasting on hatchery raised RT plus TShad.

Eric,

I think you will find the next time you look at a largemouth the "black stripe" only partially coincides with the lateral line. I know this because I paint that "black stripe" on mounted fish with an airbrush.

Not trying to be contrary but this is something I see every day.

Cecil here is what is commonly written - not in the technical sense but in general terms

The largemouth bass can be identified by its large head, a jaw that extends beyond its eyes, and a black lateral line that runs from head to tail.

I think you can see here that technically the 2 are separate.

Lateral line sensors run alongside the spine?

Here is a picture of a large bass I caught not to long ago. I only posted it here because you can see the color quite well if you wanted to look at one in it's natural state.



[img][/img]

Maybe I misunderstood you but whey you said in a previous post in this thread,



I assumed you meant the lateral line and the black stripe are one and the same. As you indicated the illustration above shows otherwise. At a point below the soft dorsal the the lateral line (sensory pores) goes above the side stripe pattern and terminates at a point on the dorsal side of the operculum. (Actually it doesn't terminate but continues on into the inner ear from my understanding.)

Theo on the pic above can you see the small line that Cecil is describing ? That is the true lateral line (sensory pores)on a LMB.

Yes, I see it. If it was a BG, I think that would run right alongside the spine. IIRC it is the same for LMB.

Dang! I actually understood that.

I think.

I wanted to say it ends on the top of that thinky that opens and closes behind the mouth, but I prefer to sound like I know what I'm talking about.

Nice bass! What were the measurements and weight of that bass?

Oh, by the way, cool shirt!

Walt, I know Malone hatchery is attempting to produce non feed trained bass. I do not understand or agree with this. I can not keep bass on pellets. What is theory in presence of forage where a bass eats both way they think the bass stop growing (non sense). Many times i think genetically a fed trained bass might have more northern genetics (more agressive) thus that is why they stop growing. However if I'm producing a true F1 I would storngly suggest they learn to eat pellets.

I say takeout the bass Rex. Also is that dye? You do know that is killing your natural forage base, right? Thus eating pellets are that much more important if you desire to keep using it. If not dye my bad.

I use a little dye to give my pond a blue tint, I am not a fan of the olive green it would be without. When I say a little dye, I mean about 8 ounces in a 1/2 acre pond. I know it probably kills off some plankton but I have to be able to look at the pond and like the looks.

I appreciate your advice Greg and I will take a few of the bass out, I have heard if I wait until the water gets coolers than the bass fillets won't be as "mushy" as they would be if I caught them now in 80 degree water? Has anyone found this to be the case?

Yep. Colder water = firmer fish.