Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water 15-year-old pond, mud and muck

I've been poking around the forum for a while. Thanks to all for what I've learned already. On to my specific situation...

I purchased a house a year ago and it included a 1/4 acre pond. The pond is oblong and about 6' deep at the deepest point. It was dug 15-20 years ago and I don't know the history of how it has been maintained.

My problem is that the pond bottom is very mucky and the water is dirty. It has at least 6" of muck, probably more in some areas. Also, there's about 1' visibility in the water.

I'd like my kids to be able to swim in it without disappearing in the muck below. We tried swimming a few times last summer, but it's fairly disgusting (and we have high tolerance for disgusting). We've also fished it a bit, and there are tons of small sunnies, probably too many, and the occasional cat fish close to 1' long.

Since a picture is worth 1000 words, 2 are linked. One is a rough sketch of the pond. The other is a photo of the pond taken from the dock end.

sketch: http://tinyurl.com/ddrjnv
photo: http://tinyurl.com/d4g2xr

Before finding this forum I was planning to put in an aerator or two and hope for the best. Now I wonder if there may be other/additional options.

Any advice on the most cost-effective steps to take would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to work within a $1500-2000 budget. I'm relatively handy and tolerant of dirty work.

Thanks in advance!

Buz

One more photo in case it matters:

Arial photo: http://tinyurl.com/d9xpey

Howdy, Buz, and welcome to the Forum.

Aeration would be my best bet if I were you. We had a recent thread discussing muck removal which mentioned some of the other (more expen$ive) options; see When is it better to just drain?

It sounds like you could use a better predator for the small sunfish than the Cats. Any evidence of other fish species present?

Was last Summer's disgustiness brown (presumed silt) or green (presumed algal)?

Thanks, Theo. The water is brown. There was a bit of filamentous algae, especially late in the summer, but I was able to scoop most of that out with a rake every couple of weeks. It wasn't a major issue.

Sunnies are by far the most prevalent fish. Only 2 catfish were caught last year, but my 8 year old son gets sunnies at a rate of about 2-3 per minute (not exaggerating) with breadcrumbs and a net. No signs of other fish. There are, however, many bullfrogs and the occasional overly-greedy water snake (see photo: http://tinyurl.com/daoafm ).

The shallow end of the pond has a lot of debris (leaves, sticks), which i should remove.

I'm thinking that I will need two bubblers due to the lack of pond depth and the oblong shape. Does that make sense? Any other ideas?

Thanks again.

Buz

Buz, I sent you a PM.

I wonder if the catfish are really bullheads.

That's possible.

When you said they all seem to be about 1', that's what made me think they are bullheads.

What color are these "catfish", are they are bluish silver color or a brownish yellow color? Bluish silver, channel cats... Brownish yellow, bullheads, either brown or yellow.

Work on getting the water quality back up to par and then if interested, you can consider improving your fishery a bit. Sounds like you have a great place to let your children be kids!

Congrats and welcome to the Forum!

Bullheads could help explain the silt being stirred up.

Can you post a picture(s) of the Cats?

Looks like a bullhead to me: http://tinyurl.com/cq7rvn

So what's the recommendation? In addition to aeration, do I try to harvest out all the bullhead so there's less silt being stirred up?

Thanks, CJBS2003. The place is exactly what the wifey and I (mostly I) have always wanted for our kids. Being brought up on a farm myself, I couldn't imagine growing up without space to roam and get dirty.

Yep...definitely a bullhead, Buz.

Channel cats have forked tails, while the end of a bullhead's tail is straight (like in your pic).

I would definitely take the bullheads out. They are probably contributing (at least somewhat) to your lack of water clarity.

Consider stocking advanced or adult LMB. They will knock down those BG numbers so that their size can increase, and will help control the bullhead population.

I am normally highly in favor of aeration. In this particular case, with the pond so shallow and being in the north, I would definitely bite the bullet. Pump it dry, kill it. Pay the 2 grand to have it cleaned out and deepened, and a berm built up. You will be much happier with it. Then in a few years when the fish get larger and vegetation starts growing, get a small aeration system.
I was in a similar situation, but my pond was deeper, I was in the south, and I had decent fish in it. I wish I had pulled the plug 2 yrs. earlier.

A total revamp maybe worth the effort and expense...

But, it you can't stomach that, I would definitely work on removing those bullhead. You most likely have yellow bullheads. Brown and yellow bullhead are native to NJ the one in your pic appears to have white chin barbels which is the easiest way to tell the two apart, as brown bullheads have darker colored chin barbels.

The issue you face is that even if you do stocked adult LMB, the high turbidity in your pond will reduce their ability to prey on the stunted sunfish and bullheads. Plus, if there aren't any LMB in there currently it leads me to believe there is a water quality issue which maybe why a complete revamp maybe in your best interest. If you have a local lake nearby with some 10"-14" LMB, try catching a dozen or so and transplanting them back to your pond. You won't be out any money if they go belly up.

I would go the revamp route though...

Removing every bullhead is a step in the right direction no matter what you do.

Investing in an aeration system now is not a bad investement.

It will help start breaking down the muck at the bottom, and that might be able to be accelerated with the addition of some microbes.

Draining and recarving the bottom certainly is an option but with more costs involved.

A complete revamp is not the advice I was expecting. I'm not rejecting it, just trying to process...

The problem is, I know how the "2 grand" jobs usually end up. Four Grand later I'll have a dry hole in the ground, a torn up yard, and no wildlife. And I'll realize at that point that I should replace the dock, which is in pretty bad shape... and on and on. My $1500-2000 budget is yelling at me already.

On the other hand, if I really can get it done for $2000 that's not much more than putting an aeration system in.

For this year I'll probably try to get the bullhead out, get some LMB in (and hope they don't lower the number of bullfrogs by too much; the kids love them), and put in an aeration system, which I assume I could re-use later if I end up revamping the pond.

Thanks, all, for your advice. If you see anything obviously wrong with my plan let me know.

I think your plan is sound. At the end of the day, you don't have to do anything; you'll just have what you have.

Are there any LMB in there now?

Kids may love the bullfrogs, but catching a 2-3 lb. LMB out of there might overshadow that.

Nothing wrong with not wanting to drop a pile of cash. I know the feeling...

I'd go with the aeration, it will help improve the water quality and will hopefully help the bass stay alive in the pond. I would catch as many bullheads by hook and line as you can. Bullheads actually are pretty good eating IMO, but they probably make great fertilizer as well.

Also consider buying a couple fish traps. They're not very expensive and the kids will love checking them in the mornings after a night in the pond. Bait them with livers or something else stinky and you'll end up with plenty of bullheads.

Hopefully with the aeration and reduction in bullhead numbers the water quality will improve enough that your 12 or so LMB that you catch and transfer to your pond will survive and help control the bullheads and sunfish even further. I doubt the bass will affect the bullfrog numbers that much.

Thanks again. No LMB now. Any fish that are in the pond were stocked by someone prior to me, and prior to the person I bought from, so that's going back at least 10 years. Either they never put any LMB in, or none survived.

There's really no "structure" in the pond right now, other than the dock. My understanding (perhaps wrong) is that LMB depend on structure. True? Should I add a downed tree top or something near an edge? before getting some LMB in there?

Maybe wait on the structure for just a little bit.

Bullhead eradication should be priority one. This is all depending on how quickly you can get some LMB when you want. There is a lot of hesitation about translplanting wild fish into your pond due to possible transmission of unwanted disease, but I believe this is more of a risk when you have some existing fish that you would hate to lose. I don't think that is the situation here.

So for bullhead-be-gone:

1) Fishing with live bait or hotdogs
2) Trapping using pre-made fish traps or home-made fish traps (there is a cheap way to do it with plastic trash cans)
3) Sein netting
4) Addition of LMB of say 15" or greater to eat bullhead; they will also eat the other sunfish. This might be when you need structure to help bait fish live and grow a little bit longer.

Buz, from the aerial picture, it appears you have lots of trees. The leaves they produce are probably responsible for most of the sludge. Regardless of whether or not you re-work the pond, controlling the leaves will be beneficial to the pond.

I'm going to *try* to get a lot of the bullhead out before they spawn. Looks like the kids have some work ahead of them. Thanks for the catching tips. That helps.

Unless I buy them, I won't have quick access to a dozen good-size LMB to put in the pond. I don't fish a lot myself, so I'll put an APB out to my buddies who do fish.

bobad, you're right about the leaves and I'm sure they contribute to the sludge problem. I've been thinking about removing some of the trees immediately surrounding the pond. That would probably help. But because we're in the woods, there is bound to be a lot of leaves getting into the pond regardless.

If you take a plastic garbage can with a lid, you can make a trap.

Cut a hole in the lid about the size of a pop/soda can. Throw a brick or two in the can. Then secure the lid to the can with some wire ties or what not. Also poke some holes randomly around the whole can/lid so it won't hold air.

Tie a rope to one of the handles.

Then throw some nasty bait into the can like old meats, hot dogs, chicken livers, road kill, etc. Maybe even some fish food pellets if you have them.

Huck the trap out in the water to where it will sit on the bottom in a few feet of water (3-5'), and let it sit for a few hours.

Then come back and quickly haul the can out of the water, fast enough so no nasty bullhead can swim out.

Check the trap and see what you have. If nothing, try a different location or bait.

Bullheads spawn much later than BG and LMB, in your neck of the woods, I'd guess late May into early June. So you will have some time to catch plenty of bullhead before they spawn.