Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Golden Shiners in Kansas?

I have siphoned out my 1.5 acre pond this winter and will be restocking this spring starting with forage and then bass in the fall. I will put fhm and bg in for sure. Is there a down side to golden shiners? I would like to have a strong forage base to get the bass going fast and then hopefully keep them going. Can GS become a problem eating the eggs of the fhm and bg? Next question, is a box of 250K shiners from Anderson's too many to put in a pond 6 months before a predator will be introduced?
Thanks,
mbj

mbj, is your goal big bass? I've done the box from Anderson's last year and am going to do it this year. I'd do it in your situation without hesitation - in fact I wish I would have done it first year in my pond as well and given them a chance to grow out. If you're going to stock bass in the fall you'll have no issue. You can of course wait till spring '10 if you really want your forage to have a head start.

If you stock the BG before the GS make sure you put the GS in the middle of the lake to reduce predation from the BG - they like the little fry. If it were me, I'd stock the GS fry first, then fathead a few weeks later, then BG after that. The fry grow fast, but bang for the buck it's a great deal. (imagine buying 250k fathead!) Of course this depends upon size and numbers of BG.

How many BG are you planning on stocking? You may have noted some of the 'new aggressive' stocking of up to 2000-3000 BG per acre with reduced LMB to 50-75 per acre for great LMB growth. Adding shiners to this won't hurt the strategy at all.

With bass, are you going native or F1?

By the way, why'd you drain the pond?

Aaron, thanks for your response. That sounds like a good plan to stock the gs first. I was thinking about 750/acre on the bg and 75/acre on the bass. I think I will go with native northern bass. My reason for draining the pond is a long story. The short version goes like this... The pond was built in 2003 and the original owner stocked about twice as much of everything as needed and he stocked hybrid bluegills rather than a true bluegill. He also stocked everything all at once so his 10 lbs. of fhm were probably gone in a week. I purchased the property 1 year later but was not aware of the stocking numbers and species until 3 years later. I have tried adding forage (bg and fhm) and removing as many bass, hbg, and cc as possible since but have never been able to get any growth out of my bass. The biggest to date has been about 10 inches. I'm hoping to grow some big ones (6-7lbs.).

Good reason for starting over. It's all your baby now.

I'd say don't be afraid to go more aggressive on the BG's. It can't hurt. If you don't want to do that I'd suggest stocking various sizes to create a year class ladder of the BG's. Just get some in that can spawn right away (4-5"). It will really help you create a good base. Are you going to feed either the BG's or the bass?

I'd also put in a couple F1's if it were me. Maybe 75% northern and 25% F1.

I want you to have a 10 lb bass! I'd really consider feed trained bass in a pond that size as well.. you could have a great fishery.

If your goal is mostly to produce large bass and a quality BG fishery is not of concern. I wouldn't shy away fro GSH at all...

I would also consider giving your forage base two full growing seasons before I stocked bass. This spring I would stock GSH, FHM, mosquitofish(gambusia) and if you can find a source I would also consider stocking GSD. I would let them spawn and multiply through the year. The following spring I would then stock the BG. Then in the fall of next year I would stock the LMB.

By do this, it assures that your FHM, GSH and GSD have spawned at least twice and have built their numbers up. The fry of your GSH and FHM from your original stocking will have gotten to a size that the BG will not be able to feed on when the BG are stocked the following year. This may put you about a year behind but in my opinion is worth the extra wait to assure yourself of a strong forage base. In the future you can consider annual stockings of tilapia as well...

With your pond being in Kansas, you are at the far northern limit of F1 bass. I am not sure there will be much advantage to stocking bass with any FL genes in them as those genes will most likely not be be expressed in your more northern water.

With your pond drained I would consider adding plenty of fish structure while the pond is dry. Once it fills up, I would look into starting a feeding program for the BG and aeration as well. This will allow more biomass in your pond. A fertilization program would also be strongly encouraged. With these steps I do not see any reason why you couldn't produce a few bass pushing double digits.

CJBS has a point on the natives. There might not be an advantage to the F1's in your area. Not sure exactly where you are in Kansas and should have asked. If you're in Baxter Springs, try a small percentage. If you're North, probably not. Read this for more info on Kansas:

http://kdwp.state.ks.us/news/content/download/16836/114722/file/

I'd be careful with 2 years of Gizzard Shad - they could easily get ahead of your bass. They are better added later after you have large bass in the pond.

And structure is great - but remember structure doesn't grow fish... it just concentrates them. The right habitat is important. But too much structure just makes the fish spread out.

As cjbs says, aeration is great. Make sure you take care of water quality - it really all starts with that.

Thanks to both of you for your replies. Lots of good info. I am not familiar with gambusia and as such woudln't even know where to get them. I have been eyeballing automated feeders because I live about 80 miles from the pond. I will probably go ahead and pull the trigger on one this spring. I will have to look further into aerating and see what is available in a wind powered system as there is no electric service at the property.
Thanks again,
Mark

"is a box of 250K shiners from Anderson's" Is Anderson's a big golden shiner distributor by chance? Any contact information on him and does he distribute to Wisconsin?
Thanks!

Anderson Minnows are indeed a large forage fish outfit, who pioneered shipping 250k GSH fry pretty much anywhere for (last year's price, IIRC) $250.