Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Problem pond in Michigan

First I'll try to load the pics, can someone direct me to the pic-posting thread?

Never mind, it worked the first time.

This guy is looking for help. His pond has been crystal clear since 1984, this spring it turned to this color. Soil is peat (the pond was dug in a swamp), nitrates are .2mg/l nitrites are 0.0mg/l.

Boiling the water does not remove the cloudiness. Putting in the dark for 3 days doesn't clear it up. He says bleach cleaned it up in a glass. He said he used a "grain elevator referred" herbicide that came in small pellets (I assume Karmex) and that didn't work. Green Clean didn't work.

He does have a rabbit-raising facility onsite, but all wastes are filtered and the pond stays below government mandated BOD levels.

My first thought is that soil problems would settle out in a glass, and cloudiness that comes from clay would require a clay source (not here). Tannins in my experience stain water but do not cause the chocolate milk look.
This makes my only guess to be some sort of planktonic algae (daiatoms?). I would appreciate any help, this one's a stumper.

Is the pond ground water supplied ? What is the bottom like? I assume those are circulators running (how long have they been there ?). What is the alkalinity of the water? Often swamps and bogs are highly acidic and will not support plankton blooms which are visible. Karmex is not a good thing to use in/around a pond. It may kill all the surrounding trees.

The pond is mostly spring fed, a bog ecosystem. Alkalinity near 720, Hardness over 1000, pH 8.8.

Like I said, the effluent from his lab-rabbits is filtered, runs through a settling tank, then flows hydrostatically through a sand/gravel bed about 100 yards long before it reaches the pond. I'm thinking this is really messing with the chemistry and selecting for some weird algaes.

Under the microscope I found quite a bit of planktonic, and what looked like a lot of lysed cells. Would that be the Karmex? I assumed that that stuff would knock out anything, so i find it weird that this stuff survived it.

I performed a "pseudo algae challenge test", using several of my chemicals. Like he said, the bleach cleared the water immediately and there was no precipitate. I saw good results with CuSO4 but unlike the bleach there was a pretty large amount of precipitate. Reward didnt seem to touch it. Hydrothol seems to be working (some precipitate at the bottom), as is Alg-Away. I dont see any real change with chelated copper.

Circulators have been on year round for a few years. I let him know to discontinue the Karmex on site for the obvious reasons. He said the feed mill sold it to him in a coffee can! wow.

He needs to have someone analyze the water to see what the culprit is.

Seems to me the reason the bleach may clear the water is it raises the PH which allows the culprit particles to settle vs. them bouncing around. Is there a fine film on the bottom of the beaker after the water has cleared after adding bleech?

I'm thinking the PH is on the acid side due to bog soil leeching. Recents heavy rains may have increased the leeching of these bog soils into the pond.

Any recommendations on labs, preservation, shipping procedures?

Check with your county health department for labs that will test for you. Down here the county has a lab that tests for them and I saw in another county where a prospective fish farmer got his water tested.

I did a google search for water sampling in Michigan and came up with this:

http://www.deq.state.mi.us/documents/deq-dwrpd-lab-DW_Fees.pdf

However I would suggest talking to someone and telling them of your problem so you can test for specific items that are pertinant to your problem.

I belong to a list serve of Michigan aquaculturists and state entities related to water resources. If you want I can ask.

Note: Don't even mention the word Karmex if that is what the property owner used. Michigan's DEQ is hyper about water contamination and it could get the pond owner in a heap of trouble.

I strongly suggest you contact Bill Cody . I see why you say this doesn't add up. Those alkalinity #s do not equal a bog unless the ground water is running through limestone directly into the pond. Karmax will not kill all plants but will kill a bunch you don't want to kill. It is possible that it is selectively killing some plankton but not all. Bleach will kill most everything.

Thanks for the tips. I definitly can relate to the water hyperactivity here in MI. Though I am extremely opposed to the use of the "K-Bomb" I wouldnt report it.

After 24 hours I still have clear water and zero precipitate in the bleach sample. Copper sulfate has totally cleared the water save for the moderate precipitate. Would it be unscientific of me to go with what works and try the CuSO4?

As far as the bleach goes... if we were dealing with a sediment suspension, wouldnt I be able to see it precipitate? My instinct says that since there isnt a precipitat we are dealing with something "biologically soft enough" (for lack of better words) to dissolve in a bleach solution.

Judging by the extreme reaction with bleach, I am guessing it is something biological. I think a professional water test would be a good idea. I know that Texas A&M has a great water testing facility if you aren't opposed to shipping it to them. Here is the website to get the form with everything you need: http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/files/waterweb1.pdf

I hope this helps

[quote=JMAC] I definitly can relate to the water hyperactivity here in MI. [quote]

I was told about a guy in Michigan that drained his pond into a ditch. He was fined $11,000 because he didn't get a permit. I think that is over the top.

I would not use Cu unless you know what you are trying to kill is an algae. It is poor to just guess if Cu will work. It could be bacterial, thus why then use copper?

Bleach - hypochlorite is an oxidizer thus small organics will be lyced and mostly dissolved.

Use of K was poor choice. Algae could have been killed by K and residual is contributing to current cloudiness charactrers. After use of K, it may be hard to tell original problem causer.

Change is constant and that is what ponds do - always changing, only major changes are visible.

I would let the pond settle, recover and recolonize before getting too excited. Depending on circulation - mixing patterns, currents may inhibit rapid settling/clearing.

Upon arrival this morning, i noticed an oily film on the top of the Cu test beaker. Am I to assume that this is the lipids of the former cells?

The K was used after the pond presented these symptoms, and there was no change in the pond's appearance after it's application.

After re-checking the K info and based on prior K events I believe it will stay in the system for some time. It has a long duration time. One warning says don't plant area for 2 years. My memory is one guy had large trees around the pond dying over several years after pond application. It may not have caused the brown water but it may be inhibiting any new plankton species from establishing and it may do so for a while.

I think I would turn off the circulators and see what happens.

I haven't heard of Karmex before. Is it a nasty herbicide, soil sterilizer, or something else?

Karmex is a soil sterilant that a lot of grain elevators around here push as a great pond cleaner. It's really hard to compete with because it is an awesome pesticide. You only have treat once, and it kills almost anything it comes into contact with, plus it lasts for years. As another bonus- its carcinogenic too!

As far as this pond goes, he can't shut off the aerators because of his BOD restrictions... Although if he really put K into it, I may assume the BOD is going to be negligable for a while. Thoughts?

Wow! I can't believe somebody would voluntarily put that in a pond. With that piece of info, that pond may be messed up for quite some time and I don't know if I would even want to eat the fish. If you send the sample to Texas A&M, make sure you let them know that it may have "accidentally" gotten some Karmex in it and maybe they can tell you if it is still present and how long it might take to biodegrade. You could probably also ask the Dupont website and maybe get an answer that way. Let us know how it turns out.