I stocked from Jones Fishery 5 8-10 inch HSB in 2 of my smaller ponds and 2 more in the big pond. I have noticed 3 of them within a week in the smaller ponds having excessive whie goo on there sides which I assume is something not good, they also were larthagic. I tried PP treatment 2 died pretty quickly and last died a day or 2 later. So I'm wondering what may be causin this new fish Im' adding to die (I added minnows and one big catfish) that are ok. Also wondering is there a more effective treatment I could do when I see a fish with that white sludge on it.
Thanks,
What's your water temp? (curosity more than anything else)
How many ppm of PP did you use? If your water is hard tou can make things worse with PP. Anything over 2 ppm can stress your fish. I've killed trout with PP.
Personally think you should have waited to plant, as fish are susceptible to fungus from handling in cold water. You always want to plant fish when water temps are on the rise and you can get feed into them ASAP. Sure it may be close to April calendar wise, but it more like late February weather wise.
The sooner you can get feed into the other fish that aren't effected yet the better.
OTOH you may lose a few fish that were handled the roughest and that will be it.
I dont have a thermometer but I'd say it's pond dependent due to the setup. Some shallower than others, one has the entire size held by concrete retaining wall so I imagine it gets colder as well. Give how temps have been in central/southern ohio I would assume none of them are over 40 degrees yet. Water in other ponds comes from rain but the smallest pond has a minor leak in it which since I have no good plan on how to figure out where it is and how to fix it, I end up filling it with hard water a few inches every couple weeks. Luckily its the smallest of my ponds and just really an overglorified koi pond (20'x30'x3.5') that I use to display fish to visitors.
My recollection is that HSB are very susceptible to getting fungal infections simply from handling when water temps are under 55 degrees.
My recollection is that HSB are very susceptible to getting fungal infections simply from handling when water temps are under 55 degrees.
Bingo. Perhaps Jones should have known better?
Kobe:
Get an indoor/outdoor wired thermometer. Check it against at least one other thermometer to make sure it's correct (I had one that was off close to 5°F. Put a weight on the probe, mark the wire so you know how deep the probe is, and use it to measure water temp. I think you can get one for <$10 at Wal-Mart/Lowes/Hole Depot/Menards.
so when you say handling if I just dump them out of he bags jones gave me versus grabbing them with my hand does that help? Like is some bacteria or oil on my hand make the HSB even more at risk for bacterial infection?
Just catching them with a small net to put in a bag for transport might be enough to give them a fungal infection. The best way to avoid it is to wait until water temps are higher.
good info. So what's a good general water temp for that? 50 degrees? I have no idea. Sure glad you all know this cause I've read tons of articles on internet and have gotten more insight here than probably from reading 100 articles
HSB survive a lot better when water is above 60F and 65F is even better for survival since they will start eating quickly. Most of the rough handling is at the fish farm where the fish are seined and held in muddy water and then flopped around in the seine. Dipped out, sorted, put in tanks for hours or worse days, dipped out of tanks in another netting, put in a bag or truck, dipped out of the truck, then often dipped again into the pond. Each step wipes off slime layer so bacteria can attach and cause that fungus you are seeing on your fish.
Take pictures of the dead fish show or send them to Jones. They should replace the fish or give you credit for more fish. Jones should have told you this when you got the fish. Many stocked fish die and are never seen. Often the dying weak fish are eaten by something before they float. A weak fish is very easy prey.
Is there a reason why on my shallower ponds the following trend happened: catfish most if not all died; HSB died (5); Bluegill died (3); walleye most survived (1 of 5 died); All LMB survived (5); most minnows survived. Triploid Amurs all survived (I think); Paddlefish died (only 1);
So I dont see a rhyme or reason to survival based on size; ALot of these fish died after the final freeze and had fungus on them. Several of the catfish had what appeared like oversized cigarette like burns on them that seemed exposed. What are these?
I guess I'm trying to figure out what about this super harsh winter got to certain species before others but struggle to find information on why one survived versus the other.
Also concerned on catfish in the main pond. I cant see the bottom in that one, its alot deeper and bigger but I'm concerned maybe all of them are dead I just won't know it cause unlike the smaller ponds where I found them all at the bottom dead, I cant see them in the larger one.
I'm puzzled as well. The fish that died, when were they stocked?
Most were stocked last spring.
LMB: last spring 5-7" when bought; 5 of these added. All 5 survived
HSB: only 1 stocked last year that died. was around 6" when added. I added 4 more recently that all had fungus shortly after stocking and died
BG: I added 3 adults from the main pond. They all died. However there are some juveniles I've seen
Paddlefish: added 1, it died
WE: added 5; have seen 1 dead; I cant say I've seen the others alive but there hard to spot
YP: I added 4 of these about 7" last spring; I havent found em dead but cant find em alive either
Triploid Amur: 3 added last spring, I've seen 2 alive can't confirm 3rd alive/dead
Minnows: Fathead/Golden shinners seemed to be fine in general; I had a mosquito fish invasion that I'm happy to report I dont see any of these after the cold winter
Catfish: Close to all these dead and stocked last spring; These had white fungus on the sides and some weird boils/cigarette like burns on them. All died after the last thaw most a few days later.
The main pond has tons of LMB/BG and feral Goldfish in it; I've seen all these alive; There was also around 15-20 catfish that used to come to the top when I threw food in and I've seen none of these. These are the ones I'm concerned are also dead in the main pond. Since I dont understand the reasons these fish were dying I dont see why a much larger/deeper pond would yield different results for these catfish. They appeared to make it through the cold winter but were in pretty bad shape in the shallower ponds where I could spot them.
Unless you can make a detailed inspection of the whole pond bottom, don't assume that the only fish that died are the ones that you can see. Some will die and sink, never to be seen.
Think of the volume of water in the pond as a savings account for dissolved oxygen. The more water, the more DO available to the fish. Smaller shallower ponds usually have O2 depletions before larger, deeper ponds.
But, that's also why you will see "it all depends" tossed around here. No two ponds are alike, even though you think they are identical in construction and O2 demands.
Generally you won't see the CC until the water warms into the 60's. Catfish are warm water lovers and not real active for feeding at the surface in 50F water. Although never say never.
So any idea what the boils/cigarette like burns on catfish could be from?
While I get the oxygen formula I'm confused cause most these fish died a week or so after the ice melted. So they made it through what I would assume be the low oxygen phase but died shortly after.
Stress will manifest itself in different ways, and in different time frames. For instance, the drought in Texas is still killing Oak Trees, even tho the drought that caused them to die might have happened 3-5 years ago. Stress can be brought on by a number of different things. Water temp either too high or too low, O2 levels too los, etc. If the stress isn't enough to kill the fish right away, it could lower their immune system to allow secondary causes of death, which usually aren't immediate.
Stress associated with moving/handling fish is a major cause of mortality. Water quality is a key both as noted by Bill. The mortality can be quick or delayed (weeks).
See this
Fungus with pics and discussion of stress and cold water handling.
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=137119&fpart=1http://www.catchphotorelease.com/bass24.htm http://www.salmonfishingforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=61205