I think I've read every post on HSB from the archives and still have a few questions before making the decision to go this direction over my original plan for a LMB/CNBG pond. George and Meadowlark and Bruce' s stories are just amazing. Tank you for addressing these questions and maybe adding a touch more to the really great archive.

This is a new 2 acre pond (by land acreage, not surface area), located just south of Bonham, and I'm wondering about stocking FHM and CNBG this spring and then adding the smallest HSB I can buy in the fall. Then I will add tilapia next spring and continually each spring thereafter to create a forage plan for a put take HSB fishery.

1. Will the CNBG and Talapia be enough forage for the HSB or would the recommendation be to supplement with pellet food as well?

2. How many CNBG would be recommended for this type of fishery? How many talaria each spring? How many HSB would be recommended year one for this size pond?

3. If pellet food is recommended, how much feed would I be going through on a regular basis? I want to be able to estimate the costs in advance.

4. Aeration: can I get away with no aeration? I do not have electricity near this pond, so would a windmill aeration system be sufficient. I admit to not having done this research yet, as I want to get some expert advice in advance as relates to HSB.

5. Habitat: I was mid-stride creating LMB habitat and know the HSB to be an open water fish. But surely there must be a recommendation on some forms of habitat for HSB? I have no rock or pebbles in the area to draw from...

6. Question for George: the last report on HSB growth in your pond ended around 4# HSB being caught. It look like some time has passed since that report. What's the status in 2012?

Thank you everyone!
DNorm

Dnorm,

What is the alkalinity? I would have an alkalinity test done first to see if lime needs to be added.

How deep is the pond?

In addition to your CNBG and FHM, I would also stock Golden Shiners and some Redear. As for your questions........

#1 This forage base should be enough, however happy fat forage produce more forage, so I would feed also.

#2 Generaly 750-1000 CBNG/ acre, 250-350 redear/ acre, 10lbs each of FHM and Golden shiners per acre. No need to stock tilapia this spring. However next spring 30-50 lbs per acre should do the trick, and this number will also keep the filamentous algae at bay.

#3 Tough question, usually feed what your fish can eat in 7-10 minutes.

#4 HSB tend to be more sensitive to environmental factors than LMB. This pond will be pushing near the limits and with this much investment aeration should just be seen as insurance.

As for windmill aeration......if that is the only choice it is better than nothing at all. What I figure is when the wind stops blowing that is when supplemental aeration is needed the most. PVC pipes can be ran rather far to get the air to the pond, there is also options for solar aeration.

#5 Wouldn't worry to much about HSB habitat. Habitat preference studies are usually done where there are many types of available habitat...ie. large lakes and reservoirs. Grass carp prefer certain types of vegetation, but they will eat what is available. The habitat you have built can be used by the CNBG and the redear for spawning and cover.

Hope this helps Dnorm!

Brad

From what I am reading, you are planning on not stocking LMB at all, but just HSB. If you are not stocking LMB, I suspect you're going to have serious issues with BG over population and subsequent stunting.

DNorm, 3-4 lbs most common - many 5's, couple of 6's and a near 7lb.
More case history later......

Thank you, George, CJB and Brad. Yes, was thinking I read somewhere that HSB would control the CNBG population and thought my fresh approach to the pond without the LMB predation threat would make the HSB pond easier to manage. No idea the alkalinity, but have one opinion that says my area should not need lime. Just south of Bonham, tx.

George, look forward to reading more about your thoughts on this pond. Thanks for the picture and info. You're a great SMB pond salesman!

Being a 2 acre pond, I am going to have to agree with Travis on this one... - UNLESS - you want to deal with over population of LMB rather than CNBG ...

My experience with a 1/4 acre pond has proven to me that HSB can control over population of CNBG if maximum forage base is established prior to introducing HSB, resulting in forage trained HSB. Little to no structure/cover is required for maximum predation .....
No experience with larger ponds w/o LMB.

DNorm, we are near neighbors located between Paris and Sulphur Springs and have good hardness and alkalinity, so you should be good to go.

I totally agree with Brad's answers above. Total hardness more important than alkalinity IMO but Bonham area you should be good to go. Per CJBS comment, is possible that CNBG will overpopulate with HSB. If that happens then feel free to introduce some LMB females large enough to eat overpopulated CNBG. Also don't forget that George has a small HSB pond where he has stocked 1 F LMB and one Blue Catfish and has not had CNBG overpopulation. Might require more predation than this but at least he has a documented success with this recipe.

Yes feed your HSB a high protein diet, minimum 40%protein 10% fat. Aquamax 600 or equivalent.

I have a client in Montague who just caught a 7.5#, 8#, and 8.5# HSB from his pond. He feeds aquamax 3x daily, has a good bottom aeration system, and stocks threadfins and tilapia annually but has strong CNBG population as well.

The HSB do very well at your latitude.

Eight lbs at 4 yrs. At standard stocking #s CNBG will overpopulate with HSB. Total alkalinity is more important than hardness and hardness and alkalinity are not the same thing. If George and Todd say your area is ok then you should be good to go. Easy to have it checked though. https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/112/

Ok decision made. I'm going to stock for trophy bass and then perhaps add in some HSB at a later date, just for fun.

Here's the stocking plan. All comments welcome:

16lbs FHM as soon as I have water
4000 CNBG and 1000 Redear in June (assuming water comes soon -- I'm an optimist)
75 Florida LMB next summer
25 Northern LMB next summer
25-50 HSB next year in the larger size

Unsure about adding golden shiners just yet.

Thanks for everyone's direction. I'm going back to habitat creation. Thoughts on the plan?

What size LMB will be stocked ? If you are going to wait until next summer then 6-10 inch LMB would be better. If you are using 2 inch LMB to start then stock them in the summer/fall of year 1.

Ewest. Good call out. I really want to be patient and let the forage base grow. I'll put in the 4-6" LMB. The damn is nearly complete, somtime to think about rain!! Thanks!