Built a 2/3 acre pond last summer, roughly triangular in shape with mostly steep sloping contour, other than a shallow area 20 ft square on one side. Max depth at center is around 25 feet. Pond began filling in Sept, was 2/3 full into iceup, and filled with snow melt. We plan to add windmill aeration soon, as electricity is not available nearby.
Only nearby hatchery has some 8" walleyes held over so has suggested that I put in 30-40 walleyes and fathead minnows now, and add crappies in the fall.
Goal is to have fishing opps for kids soon, with some eaters more important than trophies. Would plan to restock regularly.
Suggestions from anyone for species and quantities in this location?
Welcome to the forum Lenman...
Sounds like a neat little pond you have built for you and your family's enjoyment! It's exciting when a pond finally reaches full pool. There is no exact does or don't in pond management. Each person has slightly different goals for what they want out of their pond.
A northern pond designed for some eating fish and a good place for the kids to catch a few fish are reasonable goals to obtain from a 2/3 acre pond.
You mention crappies as a possible species to stock. Here is the thread that thoroughly goes over
crappies in ponds. Probably the most recent crappie thread from the forum.
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post207073 Crappies are very hard to manage... Some years they will not spawn successfully and other years you'll have so many young of year they'll stunt horribly. This feast or famine characteristic related to crappies in ponds is one of the characteristics that makes them so difficult to manage and requires a lot of special management practices. Throw in the fact that they spawn before bass makes them brutal competitors and predators of bass young. Keep this in mind before you consider stocking them.
Advanced sized walleye such as the 8" fish you mention are a good choice for pond stocking. Here are some recent threads reference walleyes in ponds:
(the first link is another member from MN looking at walleye as an option)
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post167584http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post212492http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post211528http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post187251http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post185471I think what you'll find is, walleye in ponds tend not to do overly well. Their growth rates are limited for some reason, even with ample preferred food sources. There are fluke ponds where walleye do well. Stocking of them rarely affects fish community dynamics negatively, so stocking them shouldn't hurt anything. However, expect the vast majority of the fish to top out around 18"-20" with them taking quite a long time to reach that size.
IMO, some great candidate species for your pond would be:
Solely forage, fathead minnows(FHM) and golden shiners(GSH).
Food and forage, yellow perch(YP) and hybrid bluegills[{green sunfish(GSF) x bluegill(BG)}HBG].
Solely predatory food fish, smallmouth bass(SMB) and walleye(WE).
If you are interested in WE, I would not stock largemouth bass(LMB) and without stocking LMB I would avoid stocking BG as they are very hard to manage in ponds without LMB present.
If the mentioned species interest you, then a proper stocking plan with timing and numbers can be considered. Are you considering feeding your fish? If so, this factors into stocking numbers and other factors. Even absentee land owners can feed their fish, without electricity at their pond. Feeding would greatly increase the numbers of fish you can stock as well and reduce competition for the limited forage a 2/3 acre pond can naturally produce.
Again, welcome to the forum... Let's see what the experts have to say.
Lenman, welcome. Were you expecting that much information for a first responce? I'll tell ya, its like buger king around here. You can really have it your way!
CJ2003,
I was thinking of responding last night but I'm glad I didn't. Your response beat all compared to what I would have said. Impressive!
Lenman,
I am not nearly as experienced as most of the folks here but I do have 8 years of good and bad experiences with 4 ponds located in central MN. And man have I made some huge mistakes durning the learning process. If I understand your goals correctly (good fishing for the kids and fish frys) I would stay away from the WE. Great bonus fish but in my experience a difficult fish to culture and catch any "good" numbers. I have very similar goals to you with the exception of one experimental pond. My recommendation would be to stock BG and BC the first year followed by LMB the following year. I say this with the disclaimer of; depending on how much you will be involved or how many people you have fishing your pond on a yearly basis. Here is where I respectively disagree with others. In my experience, BC are easy to manage in smaller ponds (less than 1 ac)here in the north if you fish the pond a lot or do occasional trapping. Again in my experience, BC will give you more fishing days because in the spring, when the water is still in the low 50's the BG and LMB will be less active with the crappies being more catchable.
If you want a pond to stock and walk away, I would just stock BG this year and LMB next season.
If you want more info PM me and we can talk. I do have a few contacts localy here in MN that could probably help you.
Pond fever; beware if you catch it...there is no known cure!
Wow! Who knew that I would get such a thorough response so fast? There is so much interesting reading on this forum. Thanks for the suggestions, guys. My only challenge is the availability of fish in the area. The dnr gave me one licensed hatchery in the region. Where else do you source fish?
You're lucky to be in SE Minnesota, that's a beautiful place. I've been meaning to get down there and do some trout fishing in the driftless area.
If you can source them, and want fish that will be biting anytime the water is cool, stock Rainbow Trout. I put some in my pond last October, and from then until now those are the most caught fish in the pond.
They probably won't make it thru the summer, so it would be an optional annual stocking in the Fall. They don't like water temps over 70°F.
So I think I'm getting closer to my final plan..or first plan, as the case may be. WE held over at the hatchery from last year and FHM are coming in the next week or two. Nearby hatchery doesn't have other species available, but someone nearby is getting a delivery of fish, and I could get HBG at that time. Seems like this combo could provide forage base (FHM), fish catching in the near future (HBG), and bonus fish for a fish fry. Any suggested numbers of HBG to go with 30 WE and the FHM?
Are you feeding or not feeding?
Also, just FHM and HBG probably won't provide enough of a forage base for your WE... I'd look at stocking YP as well if you can find a source. I can't believe there aren't any YP sources a reasonable distance from you in SE MN...
I am not planning to feed. There is a local source for numerous species other than bass and catfish. They just don't have anything for me until fall outside of the WE. I'll probably have to feed them FHM until I can establish perch and BG.
I am not planning to feed. There is a local source for numerous species other than bass and catfish. They just don't have anything for me until fall outside of the WE. I'll probably have to feed them FHM until I can establish perch and BG.
If you're not feeding, I'd stock 100 HBG. That should give them good growth rates and not allow too many F2 offspring to be born that the walleye and YP can't clean them up...
Thanks, CJBS2003 and everyone else who responded. Sounds like a mixture of art and science, as everyone has different ideas. I'm going to start with WE and FHM, since that's what my first permit with the DNR is for (took advice from the nearest hatchery for that). Will add HBG and YP when I can get my hands on them, and continue to keep the FHM for feed....Then we'll make changes as needed. You'll hear from me again no doubt.
Please keep us updated on your progress... It's the only way we all learn! I doubt anyone else out there has ever had a WE/YP/HBG/FHM pond before!
Well, in the land of 10,000 lakes, and now 1 more pond, there should be something for everyone. Guess we'll see how it goes. If the WE don't work out, we'll just convert it over to a different top predator later, I guess. I'll keep learning and keep posting, I'm sure.
With WE, that would be very easy to do... If they don't work out, you can always add SMB and if you don't like them, you can add LMB. But once you add the LMB, there is no going back except for a complete kill off.
With WE, that would be very easy to do... If they don't work out, you can always add SMB and if you don't like them, you can add LMB. But once you add the LMB, there is no going back except for a complete kill off.
Yep that's why they call them green carp!
Green carp indeed. That is why LMB are sometimes considered a nuisance - being where they are not wanted or needed. I see it was suggested to put in 30-40 WE in 2/3 acre. They will eat a lot of FHM for each WE to get to 1 lb or 14". Stocked at 8" and If they get plenty of food they could be 11"-13" by fall. If 30 WE survive expect each one this summer to eat 5-7 lbs of FHM = 150-210 lbs of FHM. Are you prepared for this?.
Lenman sent me a PM, I told he he probably should add some GSH as well to increase the forage bass of his pond. If he stocks 10 pounds of GSH and 10 pounds of FHM, I think he'll have enough forage to get him through the year. Any other thoughts Bill?
GSH would help improve forage base. GSH can be a nuisance for live bait-panfish anglers. Suggestions? Maybe cut back on number of walleye? IMO they will not be an easy to catch fish like a SM or LM bass or HSB. His HBG would provide the most activity for anglers. Generally small pond WE don't seem to grow as fast nor as big as lake run WE. It would be interesting to find out why. As we get more people using WE in ponds and these people report their experiences, we will learn more about WE habits and what allows them to do well in ponds.
I ended up getting 35 4-7" WE (shorter than I had thought they'd be, and fewer after I lost a few intransit...) and 3 gallons of FHM. I have a chance to get about 200 HBG at a reasonable price coming in about 2 weeks as an acquaintance is getting a delivery from a dealer in MO. That should give me a start of some predators, some fish to provide action for the kids by next spring, and some forage. I don't know about getting GSH around here, but Oswald Fisheries is about a 40 minute drive from here, so I'll pick up more FHM later in the summer/fall. I have underwater camera and will try to watch the fish as they progress this year. Put some pallets in with hopes of getting minnows to spawn, and will probably get some more structure built soon too.
Hi Lenman, I'm also in MN. My 2 cents:
Too late now I guess but I would have recommended you stock FHM this year and give them a year to reproduce. I put mine in two years before stocking my HBG and crappie. I had zillions of FHM by then but they didn't last long. Your WE will make short work of them too.
My pond is 2/3 acre and only 8 feet deep. I stocked FHM one year and 2 years later stocked 1000 HBG and 100 crappie. I have never regretted stocking that many HBG but I do supplemental feeding every day with Purina. The year after stocking the FHM were totally gone. Have hardly seen one since. In my opinion, with only 200 HGB you will have a hard time finding them when you want to catch some. With the huge numbers I have it can still be hard to catch fish if they are not biting well. I have not have an over population problem because 90% plus of the fish are males. I didn't start seeing any noticeable F2's until about 4 years. If you eventually plan to stock more than 200 HBG I would stock none until you can get them all at once. If you put 200 in this year then you will have to find larger ones in the future when you want to add more. There are very few sources of HBG in MN which leaves no choice on size. Last time I checked there was only one source(Spruce Creek Hatchery near Alexandria). As you probably know, you cannot import fish from any other state unless they have health certs up the yingyang. I don't know how you are getting fish from MO. I tried to get fish from out of state and it was impossible and it's worse now with VHS around. They especially wouldn't let me bring them in from MO for some reason so please don't get them from MO if you don't have a DNR permit with the proper health certs. Maybe there are more hatcheries doing health certs these days but when I got my fish no one could afford it. You can get a list of licensed fish hatcheries from the DNR. It has names and phone numbers so you can find them all at once. Do everything by the book. You wouldn't want to be the one to bring something bad into our fishery.
As someone else mentioned above, my experience with crappie is that you can control them in a pond your size if you take the time. If you don't have the time to trap and control them you may want to stay away from them. I have successfully controlled them in my pond (so far) but it is only 8 feet deep. I can trap anywhere I need to trap to clean them out. May be more difficult in your pond being deeper. And BTW, if you only want them because you think they will be easier to catch early in the spring that has not been my experience. My crappie are very hard to catch compared to the HBG. Even when we concentrate on crappie the catch ratio is at best 10 HBG to 1 crappie. HBG like to eat and are aggressive.
Thanks for the info, bz. I haven't been able to talk to the DNR about my HBG option yet, as I'm still trying to get more details myself, but I can still get out of that deal, if needed. I don't want to get in any trouble, for sure. I knew I'd have to get permits, but didn't yet know how difficult it might be. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes once I get more details.
Lenman, it is a pain to get a permit to bring fish in from out of state. The health cert requirement is so strict and cumbersome that it basically keeps anyone from shipping to MN. They have their reasons I guess. I dealt directly with the DNR pathology guy and he tried to work with out of state sources to explain the requirements but they just weren't interested in spending a bunch of money to sell a few fish. If I remember correctly thay had to quarantine my fish and test 60 of them for diseases and provide vet certificates. So the local hatcheries have a monopoly on selling fish and prices here in MN are way higher than from out of state. Here's a link with furher info and the person who you need to work with. Good luck, let us all know how it goes.
http://www.ncrac.org/Info/StateImportRegs/minnesota.htm
I have noticed that fish prices from MN hatcheries do seem awful pricey.
Yeah. I'm not going to mess with the out of state fish. Will work it out with native species like YP and BG in addition to what I now have. I hadn't done enough homework on the subject of fish across state lines but after hearing from DNR it's an easy decision.
Lenman, don't give up on the HBG, they make a great put and take fishery. In a small pond you will get catchable size fish very quickly and they are agressive. There is one MN hatchery I know of that still advertises HBG. They like to sell them in the fall so you could still get some this year. Go to the link below. Speaking of importing fish, the guy who used to own this fish farm was caught exporting fish out of MN without permits and selling within MN without making sure people had stocking permits. He was a little laid back in that respect. He got in trouble and was fined and driven out of the business. Someone else owns the hatchery now and last I heard they hired another fish farmer expert to run the place. I'd buy from him again however, he was a nice guy and knew his stuff.
http://www.sprucecreekfish.com/
I found another hatchery less than 30 miles from my home that sells HBG and LMB so I'm back on track...and without crossing state lines!
Don't forget that the HBG will eat a bunch of fathead minnows as well, so your forage base will be very limited using only fatheads especially without giving the fatheads a chance to multiply before the slaughter begins.
I get what you say about the forage. The 180 hbg were 3" long & 20 bass were 3-4". 35 walleyes 5-6". I put in 3 gallons of fhm and 2 wood pallets in shallow water to promote spawning. Hatchery suggested these fhm would reproduce enough tosustain population for now. Pond is new last year, 21 ft maximum, .6 acre. Do I hear suggestions for further forage supplementation? I have readily available fhm and some shiner species in nearby creeks as well.
Catching fish from a local creek carries risks... Unwanted species introduction, disease, parasites, unwanted plant species, etc. Strongly consider the risks... But if you do collect, make sure you collect from clean healthy water, look over your fish and be sure of their ID. If needed post pics on here so we can help you with the ID of them. It sure is a cheap way to give your fish a meal though. Also check local laws on the number of baitfish one can collect per day. Here in VA there are very specific numbers and what species may be kept. PA only allows 50 a day of all baitfish(none game) combined, almost makes it not worth while...