Here's my garden guys and gals.. I've run into a little dilemma.. It consist of 20 25x3 raised beds.. And all the walkways are strawed.. The problem is I put down weedmat to control weeds, plain and simple it ain't working, weeds are growing underneath.. Anyone got suggestions. I'm thinkingon the beds that ain't planted peel up the weedmat spray roundup wait a couple days rinse recover and plant. Second option straw te whole damn garden on top of the weedmat.. What do you guys think.. I'm trying to go all organic but I'm having second thoughts.. I've read if you combat the weeds really hard they deminish to barely any year after year.. Anyways here's some pics..

Bluegiller....maybe a product called Preen?It's supposed to be safe for veggies. My brother has used it. It used to be very expensive, but prices have come down. I do believe it's a corn based hebicide.

Just a dumb question. Is the area you are planting a new bed this year or an old plot? I have thought very seriously about picking a spot, and continually tilling through a summer or two, and letting the weed seeds germinate, only to til under, and let sprout again. It's truly amazing how many weed seeds are in the soil.

LOL just had a funny thought. How about a Hoe? The kind you find at the hardware store, and not your local nightclub?

The point is to make it as maintenance free as possible (I've got a hoe ).. I seen that preen at a local store.. This is a new bed.. I tilled in about 20 dump loads of composted horse manure that's where my weeds are coming from. Some kind of viney type plant..

Are there little white flowers on the viney plant?

Preen is a pre-emergent, so don't use it on any beds where you will be starting veggies from seed.

Lots of weed seeds in horse/cow poop!! Some of the weed matting is designed to be used under mulch. Other types are designed to be exposed. I'm guessing that it's letting light thru, and is the type of weed block that is supposed to be used under mulch.

Aquaponics! No weeds, no bending over, no herbicides!

I'm not sure if it flowers.. Kind of has a purplish/red stem star shaped set of leaves.. I think your right esshup it's suppose to be buried, I didn't wanna go with solid black because of heat reasons in the dead of summer.. And it don't let moisture through as well..

I use to have a big garden I plowed and disk. A lot of work. Now I buy at the farmers market and eat healthy. Preen is pretty good stuff but you need to let your plants get a little size on them before you preen. Someday you will probably buy plants that will tolerate Roundup like our corn and soybeans are now where you plant and spray Roundup and never have a weed problem.

I could of got round up ready sweet corn but the goal was no man made herbicides or fertilizers. I think once I get the garden established a few years the weeds will be less and less over time. Just not gonna be as easy as I was hoping lol

I built some 4ft x 8ft beds out of landscape timbers as a trial. I put down cardboard, then 1" of coarse sand, then filled it in with 1/3 leaf compost, 1/3 peat moss and 1/3 top soil. No weeds for the first year and very minimal for the second year. Seems the few weeds I did get were distributed by wind. I am sure that the earthworms took care of the cardboard by now.

Probably won't do too much of a garden this year. A couple big trees need to come out first. Then I'll do a total rebuild with larger raised beds.

This is my seventh year of doing the organic garden thing, rabbit poop and alfalfa are your best friends. Rabbit poop =little or no weeds, slow release and its free. I gave up on weedmat years ago, a master gardener sold me on the idea of using alfalfa for weed control, moisture retention and beneficial nutrients at the end of the season, just till it in and let it work.
We also use free used carpet for weed control in between rows and walk ways, last for years, just roll it up and store it for the winter. Carpet stores beg people to come and get it, saves them money on land fill charges.
As for weeding, I spread the word to my friends that if they do the weeding, I'll take care of everything else and we all share the harvest….everyone's happy.

No rabbits close to here, endless composted horse manure across the street though.. My walkways seem to be doing fine with just the straw.. I don't plan to till anymore, from what I've read deep tilling is actually bad for you soil, so I just plan on flipping the soil in the beds at the end of each year.. I'm gonna try and cover all the weedmat with straw and seem if the extra weight and lack of light kills the weeds under the weedmat.. If that don't work back to the drawing board..

We "garden" a bit (see photo below). Acutally, we have market gardened for over 20 years. We use high intensity methods on a couple acres of our 73 acre farm which lets us use the rest for recreation and wildlife habitat (and pays for improvements like a pond, 2 duck ponds, and 3 wetlands, as well as thousads of trees and two prairies. The cover crop to the right of the picture is oilseed (daikon) radish which suppresses weed growth. We let it go to seed, and disk it for a second crop, and then fall plow to get ready for next year. We are not organic (we're presbyrterian), but rather use the best and most ecological practices. No manure on food crops at our place. Putting down the plastic early allows weeds to emerge and die before we poke holes for the plants. Drip irrigation and fertilizer allow for maximum yields so we can produce as much as we can handle (4 of us) in a small area, leaving the rest for play.

No expert, but my experience has been that tillers create lots of weed problems after the initial bed creation. Having said that, yes I have a 30 year old Troy Built that runs like a champ, and is still used quite often.

My approach for raised beds is a garden broadfork to loosen the soil prior to Spring planting, and keep earthworms happy and weed seeds buried. A Hori-Hori for hand digging, and a push pull weeder for emergent weeds.

I can't verify this, but I've been told horse manure has high seed content since there is less digestive time than with cow manure. But gardeners around here don't generally use uncomposted horse manure in their gardens. Maybe somebody else can comment on this.

Weeds are going to grow, but I try to get them early before they head out and repopulate. The 3 tools above make that easier for me.

Hope this helps.

Yeah I prolly should of went with plastic, since I installed drip irrigation aswell but just to supplement mother nature, I thought the fiber weedmat would let the rain through and kill the weeds.. I have a man near by that has the machine like you to put the plastic down. He does I'd say 10-15 acres like that for market.. Seems like alot of wasted space in between rows when using that? I wanted to maximize my 50x50 area, I also grew almost everything from seed under lights in my basement started in January and February (except plants not recommended for transplant)..

Horse manure is high in seeds.. That's why they say compost it for a 6 month minimum a year is better.. It gets so hot it kills most seeds then turn and repeat the process.. I need it to amend my soil it was Rick solid clay before I added it now it's like crumbly black soil I've never tested it but we'll see if it's fertile if anything grows.. The thing with the leftover seeds in the manure I figured wouldn't be a problem since my plan all along was to cover with weedmat..

Gardening is a huge learning curve! In a few years you'll have a much easier time.

Weeds are my biggest problem. I don't spend enough time in the garden keeping them under control, so I gave up on having a garden until I have more spare time.

If weeds get in your rows use card board and cover it with straw. Mulch will hold in moisture so you will water less. Keep light from the soil so weeds don't germinate. And if they do they will be easier to pull out.

http://www.stopwaste.org/home/index.asp?page=398

Please be aware that using non-composted manure on food crops is dangerous to your health!

Where do you get the straw. I have seen someone spread straw in the garden and it was loaded with weeds after because weed seeds were in the straw.

Since I have drip tape irrigation I can't layer much on top of it.. And I already have it placed under the weedmat which next year I might change that.

Some drip irrigation can actually be place below soil level. I keep mine on top of the soil but under the plastic for easy pickup in fall.

RAH, if you were to run drip irrigation in an orchard, where there was areas bewteen the trees that needed mowing, what would you use for irrigation?

I'm in sandy soil, and it's looking to be a dry year. I have emitters and most of the stuff needed for a drip system, but I'm not sure what type of system install would be best. It's a rather small orchard, between 25 and 30 trees.

Strongly advise reconsidering using Roundup on your beds - residual could hurt your veges later and also could pose a health risk to anyone consuming produce. Roundup instructions advise not to plant in areas of application for 1 year. You don't want to eat that stuff BG!

I use heavy applications of shredded leaves in the fall for my beds and it prevents any weeds from emerging until I'm ready to plant. After I plant I apply grass clippings around my plantings throughout the year and have not had to pull a weed in years using this method. I use 12" water stakes with a 2 liter bottle screwed on top for irrigation as the thick mulch won't allow for irrigation any other way efficiently. The water stakes are great, water very deeply and encourage deep root growth. Also allow for liquid fertilizer application easily [kelp and fish emulsion combo] throughout the year. I typically plant 10 cultivars [2 each] of tomatoes and 25 cultivars of peppers [3-4 each] plus cilantro and white onions. 100% organic and loving it!

I am not familiar with modern irrigation equipment in orchards, but I would look into a subsurface irrigation system and make sure it can be winterized easily. I have not done orchard research for over 25 years.

If you are going the herbicide route for weed control in vegies, follow label directions.

http://msucares.com/lawn/garden/vegetables/weed/index.html

Underground irrigation hose between the trees black poly..

TJ, sorry I must of missed your post.. Yeah I'm over the roundup I won't use decided against it pretty well as soon as I really thought about it, the whole reason for the garden was organic.. I'm going with straw over the weedmat..

Thanks guys. Black poly it is, with cleanouts. I can run air thru the system pretty easily to blow the majority of water out of the system. I'll make sure that it's sloped to allow for the water to accumulate in the lowest area, and make sure there is a clean-out there.

BGK

Good to hear you're shelving the roundup idea. I suggest saving all your shredded leaves from this Fall and put them on the beds over winter. The snow thaw freeze back and forth helps break them down some more, and they serve as great mulch/weed barrier that also helps the soil as they break down into compost. When your leaves are fully decomposed hopefully you'll have a nice batch of grass clippings saved over Spring/Summer to add to your beds as needed. I like a nice 4" layer. This too decomposes into a nice soil additive and I rototill the whole thing after our first hard freeze and start all over again. Turned 100% hard tack clay into a sweet loam in about 4 seasons that way. 100% natural and super effective.

I used to be really into raised bed gardening.

My first raised bed.





Anaheim Chili, Revolution F1 Pepper, Sweet Basil, Oregano on the west, and a few onions.

Anaheim's got to about 42" tall, produced a bunch, as with everything else.

I watched a Martha Stewart show on stuffing Anaheim Chilies, and the ones she got were despicable compared to what this bed produced. Excellent pork recipe she had for stuffing these things

I think they should make cologne, or at least deodorant out of Sweet Basil

Well I had a couple fatalities to the frost the last 2 nights.. I covered everything with the extra weed mat and my tomatoes with buckets.. Almost all my peppers are dead along with all my tomatoes all my corn, brocolli, cauliflower, sprouts, cabage, onions, potatoes made it.. The tomatoes looked horrible anyways when i bought them they were purple from phosphorus deficiency then I read online when it gets cold they can't absorb phos so went from bad to worse now they're totally mush.. Peppers were in great shape kinda stumped on why they croaked, I'm chalking it up too coldness in general.. Any suggestions..?

Try to to resist the urge to plant early. You may get lucky some years but over the long haul you will just be replanting a lot.

I had to scrape ice off the windows of my truck this morning.

Way too early to put stuff in the ground, even tho the bug is biting

@ Bluegiller...How cold did it actually get? Tomatoes and peppers are warmth loving plants. Corn is in the grass family, and can tolerate colder temps. If it got cold enough, your corn will probably develope white streaking in the leaves.Depending on how cold it actually got, it may be ok. Just keep your eyes open for streaking.

The Broc,cauli,cabbage, onions are a cool season plant, they most generally can handle some cold weather. Lettuce is best grown when the seed is sown in the snow.

Mid 20's this morning. I do not have anything outside, and probably won't for a while.

Big happenings going on with the MI Cherry crop. Darn, I love those fresh picked Black Cherries

Believe it or not, no frost at my house. Apple blooms still hangin in there! And my 3 peaches.

Are you showing us the garden, or the gal in the bikini?

It got down to mid 30's.. I think it was more my fault than the weather.. Te weedmat made contact with the peppers and fried them.. I don't regret the early start just from that little incident, I still have plenty of peppers growing in cells I started in February and the tomatoes were 50¢.. Really I planned to plant the 20th of this month so I got about 20 days early, next year I'll stick with my original 4/20 start date.

Generally here in Central Oklahoma, we do not plant tomatoes until April 15th.

BJK, Sorry so much got zapped. We are just about 25 miles east of you and we had frost on windshields this morning. Don't let this get to you, I know it is a pain to replant, but you have such a great setup I know it will be worth it for you.

26.6°F here yesterday morning, 25.5°F this morning. Dunno if any of the fruit trees that had bloomed made it, all the asparagus froze and is mush.

BGK, look at Remay Cloth. I've kept Oranges alive down to 17°F by making a frame of PVC to keep the Remay off of the tree, and stuck a 60 watt light bulb on an extension cord under the tree. Keeping the fabric off of the plant is a biggie.

I trash bagged all my bushes and small fruit trees.. I knew trash bags were a big no-no but it was all I had.. Everything under trash bags did great FIGURES.. what sucks is the peppers were grown indoors for almost 3months they had a good jump.. Now all I have left is 4-6week olds.. Tomatoes I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and spend a little more than 50¢ apiece..

PS- could be lost of rain in the forecast I'll keep everyone posted.. And how is everyone else gardens lookin.

we had a frost back in late february, lemon tree had started to bloom early, kocked them back....Its up and runnign now ..
Gotta hate those late unexspected frost......

It was the only photo I could find without working at it. That is Gail in the background washing her 1989 Dodge Daytona Turbo ES T-topper. The photo was taken in the mid 90's.

So far so good here. We've been in the mid-20s quite a few nights in the last couple of weeks.

I've got several 4'x4' raised beds where I installed 10-foot pieces of 1/2-inch PVC pipe over 18-inch long re-bar pounded into the ground. I put 4-mil plastic over the PVC to make "hoop" houses that are about 3-foot high. They've worked great, and so far, no losses there.

I have one of the little $150 6x8 foot greenhouses that I bought at TSC a number of years ago. It is filled with shelving and big "Rubbermaid-type" containers. During most days the inside gets into the 90s. Even on cloudy days, it will get into the 70s when the air temp is in the 50s. At night, it pretty much follows the outside air temp. I've put cheap tarps around the outside to keep air from moving through where the greenhouse sides should meet the earth. I have a little 750 watt oil-filled "radiator" heater that I turn on when we expect frost or freezing. At 7:00 AM this morning it was 28 outside, and 49 in the little greenhouse. So far, my beets, carrots, bunching onions, onion sets, potatoes, strawberries, and multiple kinds of radishes, spinach, and lettuce are doing great. My "flats" with many kinds of peppers, tomatoes, cucumbers, squash, okra, spices, and cutting flowers -- you name it, all are doing fine.

I also have a bunch of other raised beds, which are actually my worm breeding boxes. My 35 year old son looked at them last week kind of puzzled, and asked "why do you have air vents in in your worm beds? They aren't air vents. They are 1/2-inch PVC pipe with 90 degree elbows on the top. They support tarps extremely well without damaging the tarps, and without crushing the veggies growing below.

It is time to go build a bunch more raised beds to go on the pond dam. When we bought this place seven years ago, the dam was covered with small pine trees that the previous owner was very proud of. He said they prevented erosion. Ever since I cut them out, I've had little success growing decent vegetation on the dam. I'm now going to put a series of raised beds on the dam that will be watered with a solar powered pump. The first three sets of beds will be 4' x 12', and 5-1/2-inches high, and made from pine salvaged from some shipping boxes/pallets. These three beds will be filled with seasoned horse manure, sand, and worm castings. They will be planted with strawberries. My plan is to let them get established this year and next. I'm figuring the pine will rot in the next couple of years, but that part of the dam will then be covered with strawberry plants. If I get berries, fine. If not, fine. These 50-or-so plants were pulled from an old strawberry patch.

Last week I started more horse radish in one of my "wetland" areas. It is a place that gets sun all day long and starts to get pretty wet by October, and doesn't dry out until late June. I'm going to let them go "invasive."

Well last 2 days had good rains.. Sun and wind today.. Potatoes are popping up, onions are growing like mad, green beans grew 4" since last night,sweet corns about 3-4", cabbage, sprouts going good.. Broccoli and cauliflower are getting hammered by some kind of bug any suggestions guys?

Carrots going in tomorrow and a bed of leaf lettuce greens mix..

Possible frost here again tonight............

BGK: Great update. Did you have any frost damage at all? We aren't gardners but did have some frost damage on the lower leaves of daylily plants.

Yeah I had frost damage, wiped out my tomatoes and peppers.. But I was able to replace all them yesterday for about $20 with really healthy plants..

U really should look into aquaponics. With all the time and money and back breaking work ur putting into this thing is just useless!! With the money u spend on gas and pesticides and stuff like that u could have a greenhouse around an aquaponics setup and have food year around, and its all organic. Its a no brainer.To me atleast. And u can feed the fish to the bass too if you dont want to eat them. I will never plant another plant in the ground. Or spend hundreds of dollars a month in water bills, water hoses, soaker hoses, fertilizer, bug killer, grass killer. If u really like gardening that much, i bet if u go on the internet and look up aquaponics and read about it, u will have a set up this summer no doubt

I believe that the journey is a big part of any experience, gardening included. Maybe it's because of my rural, agricultural background, but I don't think kneeling down over an aquaponics tank and running the water through my fingers would give me the same feeling as that warm, fresh soil in Springtime. The smell of it, the feel of the sun on my skin, the cycle of a growing season... it has a beginning and an end. That's all a part of the experience for me, the same as the end result- harvest.

Not to take anything away from aquaponics, I believe it is an excellent idea, and look to see greatly expanded usage in the near future, as I believe we should. I love reading about the ingenious homegrown systems out there.

Some of us, certainly myself, may just feel a little stronger ties to the soil, and the cycle of life.

Agreed, its a way of life for us. Some years are good, some are bad. We don't have the time to properly attend an aquaponics system. There is pros and cons to each set up.

I hear ya spark plug, i got friends and family ask me y do u go to those nascar races and watch the cars go around in circles for hours and i tell them cause u just dont get it and i love every minute of it!

I have never eaten a good tasting tomato that was grown in a greenhouse, and we have even tried growing heirlooms. We sold them a green tomatoes for frying because we only sell good tasting tomatoes.

I barely have any money wrapped up in this.. I like having a garden and don't want a greenhouse or aquaponics setup.. Waters free, no pesticides except a little Sevin, no fertilizer except free compost and manure, No gas involved with the garden.. Initial cost of irrigation is done.. So next year I figure the whole garden will be under $50.. With everything weedmated and strawed I spend about an hour a week weeding I can handle that..

Me niether RAH. I hate tomatoes. My set up is not in a greenhouse now. I have a movable greenhouse that i can set up when winter gets here and keep growing things as i wish. My family owns a 400 acre farm and have grown plot after plot of vegetables and its just not for me anymore. I think im getting a head start on the inevitable. Sad but true, one day there will be no more dirt farmers just the weekenders like people here. Our food will be grown this way in the future because of logistics and politics. ( i.e goverment, pesticides). The land will be all used up for housing and such. But we will be dead and gone when it starts to happen so get out there and plant something.!