Sadly for those of us in the region that have been following this it's no surprise.
Our politicians and court system have once again let us down where they sided with short term big money interests over our environment, and what will be long term monumental financial losses for the region.
As close as i live to it, i actually don't hit the mississippi too often. However, as little as i am there, and as terrible a fisherman as i am, even I have taken 4 of those #$@&* carp out. Seems like no matter what bait i am using they are willing to take it. Jigging across the bottom works well.
I've never hooked into a 4', 100lb one before, but have had a few good 3 & 4 lb ones.
One time, they actually provided me with a really cool experience. I unhooked it, and banked it, just threw it away from me up on shore. I tried to walk downstream a little and WHOOSH! overhead a bald eagle flies over, grabs the fish and takes it a few yards away to devour it. Cool sight to see.
But yeah, i hate the stupidhead carp.
Someone brought these over right to raise them for food?
I am guessing they decided they were not as good as Crappie and let them go.
We sure do appreciate your help getting these established.
Anyway off my soapbox, has anyone here tried to eat one?
Aren't these the same fish I see these guys on TV bowfishing for that jump in the air when an outboard goes by? Seems like a worthless fish.
absolutely worthless. And they eat anything too, including the white crappie i fish the Miss for, as well as LMB, when it isn't size prohibitive, of course.
Yeah, in the Kaskaskia river there is a drunken Asian carp derby....guys in jon boats tool off down the river, making the fish jump. Other guys in the boat have beer and nets, you try to get as many in your boat as possible. It's crazy to watch, like a lacrosse game with huge leaping fish. And seriously, they jump out of the river by the hundreds.
I'm sure someone has seen these videos on youtube, it was in the news a few weeks back. Apparently it's pretty dangerous, one of these fish can easily jump up and hit you in the face going 30mph down the river.
you know what hurts? 5lbs of fishmeat at 30mph. at least so says billy-bob, the guy with the black eye they interviewed afterwards.
But....they get more of them out than i do, so maybe i shouldn't judge.
Someone brought these over right to raise them for food?
All I know is at least one variety was brought over by fish farmers to control snails and they got away via some flooding. There was also a fish farmer that moved some illegally and got caught and fined terribly and may have even done some jail time.
I am so sick of this crap by the gov't. They only study something to death so they don't have to do anything or they just won't enforce what they have on the books. Many of these great fisheries, shorelines and wildlife habitat have been squandered away via death by committee.
I am so sick of this crap by the gov't. They only study something to death so they don't have to do anything or they just won't enforce what they have on the books. Many of these great fisheries, shorelines and wildlife habitat have been squandered away via death by committee.
You hit the nail on the head but you forgot the part about special interest groups slowing things down, the influence money can buy through lobbyists, and corporations tying something up in court forever.
The horse is out of the barn. Money spent now is just part of the economic incentive plan. Keep folks busy so they don't get in trouble. We all get to pay.
The horse is out of the barn. Money spent now is just part of the economic incentive plan. Keep folks busy so they don't get in trouble. We all get to pay.
You got that right RAH. Let's just hope the carp don't adapt to the Great lakes (it's possible they won't) or may not end up as damaging as their worst critics claim they will be.
If this issue would have had 1/10th the urgency of the oil spill in the Gulf we could have licked this before it became a problem.
Maybe the should catch, cook them down and make some sort of fish cakes, or something else we could eat.
Or maybe they could be let go in the ocean to clean up the oil.
I am so sick of this crap by the gov't. They only study something to death so they don't have to do anything or they just won't enforce what they have on the books. Many of these great fisheries, shorelines and wildlife habitat have been squandered away via death by committee.
You hit the nail on the head but you forgot the part about special interest groups slowing things down, the influence money can buy through lobbyists, and corporations tying something up in court forever.
So where are we gona point ouer fingers, and start getting some results? Towards dose that caused it in the first place or inadequad politicans right or left wing trying to get it straigt?
The horse is out of the barn. Money spent now is just part of the economic incentive plan. Keep folks busy so they don't get in trouble. We all get to pay.
Yeah right "we"(or maybee children grandchildren????) are gona pay the bill, some way or another.
Maybe time to adress isues in a practical matter, as recognizing the problems as real? in stead off arguing/discusing wether it's a political problem???????
To me or the future it's not important hoom let the horse out, or hoom is to blame,just flat out recognicing that it's out (the horse).
Agreeing on getting it in and keep it there should be #1 mutual intrest.
It seems to me that politicans left and right keep ordinary people bizze arguing about the political aproach to something that seems eassy, for plain ordinary left/right wing people with a litle common scense to sort out???????
So hoom is fooling hoom I ask?
Mods if this is to political please delete
I am so sick of this crap by the gov't. They only study something to death so they don't have to do anything or they just won't enforce what they have on the books. Many of these great fisheries, shorelines and wildlife habitat have been squandered away via death by committee.
You hit the nail on the head but you forgot the part about special interest groups slowing things down, the influence money can buy through lobbyists, and corporations tying something up in court forever.
lol...I was trying to keep my frustrations short but you are correct too many hands/variables that slow down the process. Wouldn't it be great if someone with the proper authority would stand up and clean out all of the red tape and lawyers that get involved in the process? Maybe we could get something done for the good of the country and in this case save the GL's fishery.
Yeah right "we"(or maybee children grandchildren????) are gona pay the bill, some way or another.
Maybe time to adress isues in a practical matter, as recognizing the problems as real? in stead off arguing/discusing wether it's a political problem???????
To me or the future it's not important hoom let the horse out, or hoom is to blame,just flat out recognicing that it's out (the horse).
Agreeing on getting it in and keep it there should be #1 mutual intrest.
It seems to me that politicans left and right keep ordinary people bizze arguing about the political aproach to something that seems eassy, for plain ordinary left/right wing people with a litle common scense to sort out???????
So hoom is fooling hoom I ask?
Mods if this is to political please delete
Andy,
The asian carp thing was pretty much out of the hands of the common people as soon as it became a problem. Many of us tried to get something done "addressed the issue" complete with lawsuits and contacting our political representatives. Trust me everything was tried short of a violent protest. The courts decided what was best for us as they always do (we're stupid we don't know anything), which was closing the canal for the good of the Great Lakes was not an option. End of story. Closing the canal was the only option that would have closed the "barn door."
No blaming here. Just stating it like it is.
Last year I asked an aquaculture instructor at cal poly what we could do to stop the asian carp from reaching the great lakes.
I'm paraphrasing, but his response was... "Nothing, we are screwed. It is just a matter of time as long as the waterway is intact"
Apparently it is virtually impossible (Based on pretty much every attempt we have made on other species in smaller bodies of water) to remove fish once they are transplanted and have acclimated...
All we can really do is sit back and see what happens to the fishery. Not exactly an ideal situation.
Last year I asked an aquaculture instructor at cal poly what we could do to stop the asian carp from reaching the great lakes.
I'm paraphrasing, but his response was... "Nothing, we are screwed. It is just a matter of time as long as the waterway is intact"
Apparently it is virtually impossible (Based on pretty much every attempt we have made on other species in smaller bodies of water) to remove fish once they are transplanted and have acclimated...
All we can really do is sit back and see what happens to the fishery. Not exactly an ideal situation.
My point exactly. To fill in the canal or at least permanently close it off was an option but was dismissed by the powers to be, and they stood around arguing with their fingers up their bottoms anyway. The Corps of Engineers even shut down the electric weir a few times! And something not very well known, there was a push to divert funding from the weir to DHS, but it was shot down. (Yes I have that from a very reliable source in my DNR.)
The canal is man made for heavens sake! It's not like it's a natural waterway. It was originally built to flush raw sewage into Lake Michigan. It's possible the economic loss that may have been lost by closing the canal and sending shipping entirely on land (filling it in) may be a pittance compared to the economic loss of all the Great Lakes states, if the carp gets established. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me.
The sad part is that if the canal would be closed and companies started to lose money and folks started losing jobs how long do you think it would take for people to start intentionally dumping carp into Lake Michigan? That way they could say "Well the carp are already here so there is no reason to keep the canal closed". It would only take one person to do it.
As is the case with most fish, people will spread them. Snakeheads are just taking hold in the Potomac and as they become a common catch, people will start transporting them to other drainages. It is only a matter of time. First it will be adjacent rivers and soon, someone will catch 4 or 5 from a distant state and say hey I'd like to fish for them closer to my home and the rest will be history.
That's always a possibility but now it's a sure thing they will be in the Great Lakes. A twenty pond Asian carp was caught on the lake side of the weir and their DNA has been detected in Lake Michigan.
Governor Quinn has a plan to end the asian carp problem and make the state money at the same time.
Several states have sued Illinois trying to prevent the fish from getting into the great lakes.
They're predatory and could upset the lakes ecosystem.
But in Asia, the fish are considered a delicacy.
Quinn unveiled an agreement between a Chinese meat packing company and an Illinois fishery which will send Asian carp to china.
He said it'll clean up our environment and create jobs at the same time.
The Governor says as much as 30-million pounds of fish could be sent to china by the end of next year.
Now that would be good. Just have to limit sources so people don't get the idea they can plant some and get in on the deal.
I dont think the great lakes themselves are in danger directly of an asian carp invasion. The carps actually are filter feeders and don't eat much of anything else except what they filter out of the water. They will like the rivers much better than the big lakes, but here is the real danger which they will get too sooner or later- all of the streams, creeks, rivers, and tributaries that come and go into the big lakes. There are lots of them.
Every stream, creek, crick, river, tributary, waterway, etc that is connected to the Illinois river in my area is completely infested with the asian carps. Snagging is the only way to catch em with fishing gear.
Definitely need to make them worth some money so people will want to target them, but even then it seems like you would just be picking a corn field by hand.
The vast amount of money wasted on the electronic gate should now be used as a bounty for the fish...Coyotes were nearly wiped out from that lone incentive at one time and it would go a long way to controlling this species too.
The vast amount of money wasted on the electronic gate should now be used as a bounty for the fish...Coyotes were nearly wiped out from that lone incentive at one time and it would go a long way to controlling this species too.
I respectfully disagree with your Rainman. I've seen a bounty on common carp in a reservoir in my area that had virtually no effect on the common carp, which are easier to catch. Of course that was angling and not nets. I just don't think you can compare a prolific fish that produces thousands of eggs per female to coyotes.
BTW, it was a 700 acre reservoir with over 300 lbs. of carp per acre. You do the math.
Dang, the amount of these things i have banked, if they gave me a bounty on them, i could be a thousandaire. or at least a hundredaire.
Well, somebody would at least owe me a fivespot.
Perhaps aggressive stocking of fish large enough to eat small Asian Carp (Musky?) combined with a per-pound bounty on larger carp will help the rivers.
If it's any consolation, LMB are becoming a popular food fish in China, and have made their way into some reservoirs there. The spread of invasive species goes both ways.
What next? Largemouth Asian Carp?
That would be an interesting hybrid...
What I've read about these asian carp is that they are no relation to the carp family we are all used to, and that asian carp are fantastic eating. They have big bones in them, so you can't fillet them, but you cut them in nuggets and strip the meat off the large bones when you eat them. I would like to try them.
Asian Carp might be good eating, but the destruction they are causing sure leaves a bad taste.
Help us out up north here and catch a few million!
Check out the redneck fishing tournement for an idea of how dangerous Asin Carp are.
When life hands you lemons, make lemonade. These horrible fish seem like a ready source of protein for making Purina Aquamax to me.
It's Official We Now Have A "Carp Czar"! 
U.S. names Asian carp czarSeptember 8, 2010
The White House has tapped a former leader of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources and the Indiana Wildlife Federation as the Asian carp czar to oversee the federal response to keeping the invasive species out of the Great Lakes.
On a conference call today with Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin and other congressional leaders, President Obama's Council on Environmental Quality announced the selection of John Goss to lead the near
$80 million, multi-pronged federal attack against Asian carp.
"This is a serious challenge, a serious threat," Durbin said. "When it comes to the Asian carp threat, we are not in denial. We are not in a go-slow mode. We are in a full attack, full-speed ahead mode. We want to stop this carp from advancing."
Asian carp, which have steadily moved toward Chicago since the 1990s, present a challenge for scientists and fish biologists.
The fish are aggressive eaters, consuming as much as 40 percent of their body weight a day in plankton, and frequently beat out native fish for food, threatening those populations.
They are also prolific breeders with
no natural predators in the U.S. The fish were imported in the 1970s to help wastewater treatment facilities in the South keep their retention ponds clean. Mississippi River flooding allowed the fish to escape and then move into the Missouri and Illinois rivers. Some species can grow to more than 100 pounds.
The challenge for Goss, who was director of the Indiana DNR under two governors and served for four years as the executive director of the Indiana National Wildlife Federation, will be to make sure millions in federal money is spent efficiently, to oversee several on-going studies -- including one looking into the possibility of permanently shutting down the Chicago waterway system linking Lake Michigan to the Mississippi River--and to bring together Great Lakes states currently locked in a courtroom battle over the response to the Asian carp threat.
"Certainly there are some legal questions that are in process, but there has been a history already of good cooperation among the states," Goss said. "I believe that will be one of my strengths, talking at the level of the department of natural resources in each of the states so that we can very carefully coordinate our efforts."
Today also marks the second day of what is expected to be a three-day hearing in federal court in Chicago to deal with Asian carp. Michigan and four other Great Lakes states are suing the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Water Reclamation District of Greater Chicago to try and force closure of two shipping locks in the Chicago waterway system that could serve as a barrier to keep Asian carp from entering Lake Michigan.
Testimony on Tuesday focused on the reliability of the environmental DNA research that has been used to track the movement of Asian carp through the Chicago Sanitary and Shipping Canal as they have inched closer to Lake Michigan. The architect of the research, University of Notre Dame scientist David Lodge, said the method is sound and that Asian carp pose a "a very imminent risk of invasion." He added that such "
invasions are often irreversible."
Attorneys for the defense countered that the DNA research has never been used in this manner and was unreliable. They argued that even scientists disagree about the likelihood that Asian carp are capable of sustaining a large and destructive population if allowed to enter the Great Lakes.
LINK:
Oh, good, another czar. I was getting worried that none had been anointed, er, I mean appointed, in awhile. The government is now on top of it, so we can all rest easy on this issue!
This certainly spells the end for the Asian carp in America... If the Feds are on the case, you know they'll solve the problem and with as little cost as possible. I can now thankfully breath easier!
80 million down the drain.
This certainly spells the end for the Asian carp in America... If the Feds are on the case, you know they'll solve the problem and with as little cost as possible. I can now thankfully breath easier!
Haha, so true.
My bet is that a fair chunk of the $80mm will go toward the expansion of an Australian project that seeks to control carp by genetically introducing a "fatality gene", which can be chemically "triggered" (with an otherwise benign substance) to selectively induce death once sufficient time and reproduction-rates have allowed the fatality gene to permeate the carp community.
I know it sounds like a potential sci-fi thriller, but it's true. The Aussies have been working on it for several years in hopes of curbing their massive carp populations.
Kelly,
We have done the same thing with mice in our University Biotech Lab. It isn't a new technique by any means, but that is the first I have heard of it in a population control application. Hadn't heard of that, but I am hoping that it works. It is realistically, in my opinion, the only shot we have.
It can be extremely costly to develop a transgene that is effective and reliable; however, in this instance it would be worth the trouble.
The red tape will present itself in the form of public concern. People are going to have health concerns about the introduction of a foreign transgene into a fishery.
These health concerns usually revolve around allergies or other risks that may develop in response to eating a "never before eaten protein".
Other fish will eat the carp, and it not only needs to be safe for them to eat, but also safe for us to eat both the fish that consumed the carp, and the carp itself.
Until conventional animal agriculture is given the green light to utilize transgenic techniques (Cattle, Swine, etc), there is a very close to ZERO probability that we will use this to control carp populations.
I don't think that is going to even have a chance to happen within this decade given the general population's fear of transgenics (both founded and unfounded).
I hope I am wrong.
Very interesting assessment Gflo. I can certainly believe the listed challenges & obsticles.
But, as you stated, it is likely the only viable option on the horizon.
BTW: Can you imagine the stench once the "trigger" is pulled?
My philosophy is the truth is always somewhere in the middle. The media and ignorant people will always accentuate the negative, while a corporation will be on the other end of the spectrum and tell you there are no worries whatsoever.
Kelly,
The stench would be terrible lol. I imagine they would have to have boats out on the water just for carp collection.
Cecil,
As an animal science student I can tell you that the truth as far as transgenics is concerned really is in the middle. The biotech corporations, which provide jobs for animal scientists, always have a profit motive when transgenics is involved.
For example: A new Phytase enzyme can be introduced into a pigs genome. The swine industry touts this as why the use of transgenics in animal agriculture can be beneficial. They boast that eutrophication of soils and pollution could fall a staggering 50% if they are allowed to use this "green transgenic technology" in their sows.
They expect the average citizen to recognize that this is good; however, what they do not want you to recognize is the profit motive behind this.
You have to think, why would they want to lower the phosphorous emissions from their swine? The answer is profit motive. What they aren't telling you is that the pigs will pollute the environment 50% less per head, which means they are going to double the number of pigs they can produce at that operation.
How does this help the environment if the overall pollution is the same? It doesn't, but it allows them to raise more animals and still be within EPA guidelines if the transgenic swine are allowed.
But on the other hand, this could lower the price of putting food on the table.
The most controversial front in transgenics is actually its use in fish.
Sure, you can make them sterile and say they wont escape, but they will.
Sure, research says that the transgenic fish are not as "fit" as native fish; however, their increased growth rates allow them to extract more nutrients out of an environment. They don't have to out-compete their "natural" same species cousins in order to kill off other species. They just have to eat so much that there isn't anything left for other animals.
Also, the "sterile" transgenic fish are not always sterile. Don't quote me on this, but something like 1 in every 250,000 that are sterilized can still produce viable offspring. It only takes 1 to ruin the gene pool of native species.
But on the other hand, we can use this same technology to control populations of unwanted species as Kelly has pointed out.
We can also use it to confer disease resistance to livestock.
With the bad, there is some good. I am usually stuck somewhere in the middle as far as transgenics is concerned. Maybe a little more towards giving the green light.
Just found this news story.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/we-can...area=technologyA biotech firm is trying to push to get transgenic salmon FDA approved.
The story appears to be a bit biased towards the use of transgenics, but it is pretty informative. They cover some of the other potential uses of transgenics that we talked about, but it has nothing to do with what the company is trying to get FDA regulators to approve.
It is obvious in this instance it is all about the profit motive.
Make sure to read the last few sentences. They really downplayed the potential negative impacts.
I found the fact that growing this particular salmon requires an even greater harvest of wild fish as feed resulting in a net loss of the protein available worldwide quite enlightening...and hidden.