Anyone have experience with N. Redbelly dace as pond forage.
I would like to add a different species of minnow to the pond, not that I need to but just for diversity. They are in some nearby wild ponds and are a beautiful little minnow.
They might not hold up well from trout predation but it might be worth a try,.... any thoughts.

I had a redbelly dance in a northern strip club one night, but I am not allowed to talk about it anymore.

Oh, redbelly dace, sorry I have no experience with. Please allow that I have had a few Kettle One Vodkas tonight.

Leband lang, und prosper,
the stick

NO, NOT THIS ONE....THE FISH!!!!

So you were that guy in the front row!

Sorry AP, no personal experience with northern redbelly dace. I have kept its cousin species the southern and mountain redbelly dace in aquariums though. They are beautiful fish that is for sure and were fairly easy to care for in the aquarium setting... So I would imagine their close cousin the northern redbelly would be similar in its hardiness. They prefer soft acidic waters which would fit your pond perfectly... They only reach a maximum size of about 3", so they wouldn't get too big. They also spawn over FA without the need of running water, so they should pull off a healthy spawn in your pond as well. I see no reason to not attempt to stock some in your pond. Try to make sure the fish you get are healthy and if you are really concerned, consider treating them with different medications before releasing them into your pond. I'd try to stock them in early to mid spring before they spawn to give them a better chance at taking hold...

Yeah CJ, the redbellys are a beautiful minnow and can tolerate acidic water but their red color would probably add to tough survival with trout in the pond.
When the snow & ice is gone I'm gonna hike the 2 miles back into the remote pond that has them, maybe I should take my wife, she can carry the buckets out.
I've read that they can lay up to 5000 eggs per season, that's not too shabby. If I get some I'll put pics up.

You'd be surprised, that red color may seem like it would cause them to stick out like a sore thumb, but under the water is actually helps them blend in.

hmmmm, the "Fireline" of fish. I guess maybe there is something to using red mono then?

Shhhhhh!

Hopefully I can get some this year. If so, I may have some pretty good info to pass on in the future.

Also want to play with the Finescale Dace and Creek Chub.

If you can get creek chubs to spawn in your pond, myself and Bill Cody would love to hear about it. If you have a stream feeding it, it would be very possible then.

Finscale daces are closely related to N. redbelly daces, so much so they often hybridize where found together. They are very similar to them in spawning requirements and habitat preferences.

Travis, do you know the desired spawning habitat for creek chub? I can certainly try to imitate it in my pond since I have a ton of them in the creek a short walk away.

Omaha, we have plenty of creek chubs here but I guess you do need flowing water over gravel, here's some info from ohio DNR.
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/SpeciesGuideIndex/creekchub/tabid/6599/Default.aspx

I wonder if the trout spawning box would work for creek chubs, it was in the Sept,-Oct. 2006 Pond Boss.

That link is an excellent description of creek chub spawning needs and behavior. Not going to be found in a pond...

Thanks AP. I'll have to check out that back issue.

Yes it is.

I was going to attempt in an artificial environment. I have two 10 foot long troughs that are 2 feet wide and 12" deep. Plus I believe I have maybe 8 or 9 sheets available so I could fab up more and connect them together or make larger troughs.

I grew out Creek Chubs in grey pvc tanks for about eight months back in the day before I had to pull the plug. No spawning, but I know they will thrive in tanks.

One thing, is that reflections in a tank really spook bait fish. I blasted the insides with crushed glass to dull them up and that was a big help.

I wish I had my daily log note book I kept, but I haven't seen that since I moved eight years ago.

I use to get teased by certain family and friends for my activities with bait fish. But because of VHS, the rules have all changed.

I have had creek chubs successfully spawn in an artificial stream I built. I used koi/goldfish pond liner and dug out a trough. I lined the trough with the pond liner. The trough basically made an artificial stream bed. The stream ran into a lined pond. I made the trough deeper in some spots and shallow in other areas to form riffles and pools. I used a pretty powerful pump to get a good "stream flow" from the pond up to the beginning of the stream and so on. I was able to get several different species of fish to spawn in that creek. It was very educational.

Nice! We have to get you to Nebraska sometime and do this. Bigger scale though!

CJ didn't tell you he had to use this pump.

Well, forget it then. That's bigger than my pond!

Million gallons per minute? HAHA

Any idea on the stream/creek velocity required? I suppose I could visit a known Creek Chub stream and do some measurements.

1-2 feet per second...

If you're dying to know more about creek chubs, here's a HSI Study on them.

Thanks.

CJ you've probably mentioned it before, but what would be the best field guide for identifying minnows and larger fish?

CJ will provide some recent or currrent good field guides.
However a complete guide for all the fishes of North America or the US is pretty overwhelming. Lots of fish listed you will never encounter. First I would do a Google check for the fishes of your state. Many larger universities and or DNR's now have good reference picture collections for each region/state. No use sorting through fish names to eliminate those not in your state.

Good stuff. Like that it's a PDF.

My favorite North American field guide is Peterson's Field Guide to North American Fishes. However, there are no photos. It's all paintings and line drawings. It's a bit more technical.

For my area, I like Freshwater Fishes of Maryland, Virginia and the Carolinas. It has photos, much more detailed descriptions about all aspects of the fish. There is usually an ichthyologist from your area, who probably wrote a book related to whatever part of the country you are in...

As far as on-line guides, there are a few that have really stood out to me.

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/ -Virginia
http://www.tnfish.org/PhotoGalleryFish_TWRA/FishPhotoGallery_TWRA/TWRAFishPhotoGallery.htm -Tennessee (some excellent photos)
http://www.wiscfish.org/fishid/ -Wisconsin (My personal favorite, great multiple views of adult fish and photos of juveniles)
http://www.bio.txstate.edu/~tbonner/txfishes/index.htm- Texas(lots of good scientific info)
http://fl.biology.usgs.gov/pics/nativefish/nativefish.html -Mostly Florida (many good range maps)
http://fishesofgeorgia.uga.edu/index.php?page=speciespages/list_species&class=fish -Georgia


First determine if the fish is native to you area. If it's not, it probably isn't the species you think it is. However, as we all know fish have been widely introduced. Some species, particularly ones with a value as gamefish or baitfish have been introduce far outside their native range.

I could bring my kayak to a creek powered by that sucker and get some real whitewater action!

Thanks CJ, I want to get a book so I can identify some of the minnows that I come across when collecting from remote ponds.

There is an older publication (30+ pp) called Minnows of New York. Check to see if it is still available.

Also for Midwesterners, check you Fishes of the Central United States by Tomelleri & Eberle. Nt real technical with very good plates dealing the most common ones, but not a lot of shiners, chubs and minnows.

AP, I did a quick Amazon search and found this book. Fish of New York It says it is compact and has waterproof pages. Nice combo for back country hiking and IDing. No clue on the quality of the actual info in the book as it doesn't have any sneak peaks like some Amazon books have.

I also found this link: http://fish.dnr.cornell.edu/nyfish/fish.html but I think you are already familiar with it.

Thanks for the info Bill & Travis, I'm gonna order that book, I looked on Amazon earlier and didn't see that book, looks like just what I need.
Yeah, Cornell university has lot's of great info on fish, I'd love to attend a seminar by Mark Cornwell if he ever had one.

AP, when you get that book let us know what it is like.

If you have a local Barnes & Noble, check with them. They can usually get anything that has been printed, cheaper, and free shipping to your local store. If it is available, they can get it.

Amazon didn't have a listing for "Minnows of NY" but they did have "Fish of NY" so I ordered that.
Should be in by next week.

I checked the Barnes & Noble site and they only had "fish of NY" about the same price, but I'd have to drive 40 miles to the nearest B&N.

AP, definitely let us know the quality of the book. Particularly if it is photos or drawings/paintings and what information is included for each species. Many books only cover the more common species thoroughly and just glance over the less common ones or don't mention them at all.

Hey guys, I know I am bringing up an old thread, but I wanted to say thanks for the good info. I have a trout stream with a nice deep pool in it that is absolutely packed with these little guys. It's only about a 15 minute drive from my house. I had never considered these as a potential candidate for the pond since I didn't realize they could spawn without moving water. I might be joining this experiment as well.

Correction already. I sometimes make notes in my field guide that I keep in my vehicle. Did not find anything under Northern and had the minnows marked as southern redbellies. I don't have one now to look at, so, assuming that's a correct ID (not necessarily a good assumption :)), does the southern redbelly also spawn without moving water?

Southern redbelly dace prefer permanent small headwater streams of clear unpolluted water. Many of these streams are less that 5 ft wide and have moderate to high gradients with well developed pools and riffles. Good streams for this species are found in forested areas that are well shaded. They are found in pools with some flow and an abundance of hiding places such as undercut banks, down trees, and logs in the stream. This species relies heavily on the presence of these habitat features to sustain a large population in a given stream.

The northern redbelly dace prefers to inhabit boggy (tea-colored) waters of lakes, ponds, and streams. It also commonly found in clear streams. In running water it is found in the slow currents of pools over bottoms of silt, sometimes near vegetation.

From looking at the Peterson Field Guide, it appears northern redbillies are not found as far south as Iowa, however southern redbellies are common in NE Iowa in the above mentioned habitats...