Ok, here we go again. On another thread I mentioned that I had moved and have about a 1/3A empty pond. When I Googled the location (and the previous owners confirmed) it has been full in the past. The way this pond will be filled is by pumping water uphill from a creek about 250' away - (suggestions)
I'm hoping to enlarge to about 1/2A+ and will have a good idea what is possible when I talk to the builder early next week.
The pond has never been as full as it can be - notice the trees on the dam (right side of pix below). The dam is about 150' long


Next is a pix from middle of dam looking to far end. There was only about a foot of water until recent rains - now there's more to be pumped out. There is a hole about 20'x20'x5' in the bottom, so in the deep end there is 5-6' of water in some spots.


Here's one looking back from far end toward the dam. I'm hoping to add to the pond by going back into the woods to the right of the pvc pipe.


OK, that's what we're working with. I bought this place in East AL, and moved in 3 weeks ago. It's just a small cabin in the woods, but has 10.3A and lots of potential, and I really like it. Figuring out the pump is an issue, getting the trees off the dam & repairing the dam is another, and adding size to the pond is another, and we haven't even talked about fish yet. Allrighty then, let's get busy with thoughts, suggestions, ideas etc - I'm not gettin' any younger!!!
Randy

Really sweet setting there. Congrats!

Do you have electricity to the pond? If not will you establish electricity? Just wondering about aeration.

My vote is for a SMB, HSB, YP, RES and HBG lake. Spotfin shiner and grass shrimp along with pellet program make up the forage base.

I am unaware of anyone in AL pond management with YP or SMB in their fishery - would be cool to try! I know SMB are in AL reservoirs though, right? You can always switch over to a LMB/BG fishery if the SMB and YP experiment fail.

TJ, thanks. Electricity to the pond is in the budget - the pump will be electric.
I thought about RES, BG and about 25-30 HSB or 10-12 Female LMB - I think
I'll go for the big BG this time.
Since I'm in AL now, I could try some tilapia.
I plan to aerate, and feed them 'til they scream "no mas".

Your pond sure is going to have a beautiful setting. Have you moved here permanently or is this serving as a retreat/getaway?

This is my new home. First time I've lived more than 20 miles from downtown Atlanta
(except for 4 yrs in college & 4 yrs in Navy) since we moved to GA in the '40's. Also,
I haven't lived in a place for more than 5 years is 50 years.

This little place has got great potential, and I'll have many interesting projects, so I'm happy and welcome the challenges.

Have you sent a note to your new neighbors apologizing in advance for:

Playing bagpipes beneath the full moon at midnight on cabin roof...

Practicing Sasquatch mating calls likewise beneath full moon at midnight on cabin roof;

Girlish screams when the city boy catches his first glimpse of a black bear in your garbage cans? [beneath a full moon at midnight, of course]

TJ, hope you're wrong about bears. If not, then you're definitely right about the girlish screams. The pond people are coming Thursday morning, so I'll have a good idea about the direction we'll be taking then. I'll report back then...

Glad the move went well. You have a good looking project to keep you busy. Plenty of room to make some changes. What is the plan ?

If the creek has the fall, I would use a hydraulic ram pump. It would run with no cost. Maintenance would be minimal and you can build it from part you can get from the local big box store.

Here is a link to one example:

http://www.clemson.edu/irrig/equip/ram.htm

Congratulations, Randy!

Is pumping the water uphill the only water source?

Did you sell your last place? As I recall, that was a 'newer to you' place!??

I have had a few very close encounters with black bears in Montana while fly fishing and if I had time to catch my breath I would have been screaming like a busload of school girls. Amazing how many folks used to black bears treat them almost like a nuisance squirrel - chase them out of their backyards with a broom, etc. Very brave!

Can't wait to see your projects evolve...

Thanks for the replies:
Eric, the move went real well. Everything went off smoothly. Not so with my previous house - they sale fell thru last Friday.
Highflyer, I like those Ram pumps, but I don't think I could get enough water -the creek is about 250' away and 75' uphill.
Sunil, the creek and run-off are my only sources of water. I'm surprised that you haven't suggested that I get fatheads in there immediately!!!
This is going to be a real challenge, but I think/hope/pray that it'll work out. I'm looking forward to the ride...

You should get some fatheads in there immediately.

Update, I bought fatheads 2 weeks ago, and have managed to kill most of them, while I wait for the dirt moving to start. The equipment came in today, and the work starts tomorrow. Can't wait!!

We got all the trees etc. from around the entire lake today, and will burn and clear more tomorrow. Big rain coming Wed, so we need to rock & roll tomorrow...

Dam cleared (see picture at top of thread).

View from far end of pond (see third picture of my first post).

I see a big fire in the near future ! You going to cut some up to burn later ?

No, burning it all now. Still got about 5 more big trees (pines) to take down and also
cleaning a lot of other underbrush while they're here. Still got to get the pump & pvc pipes figured out, but we're working on it.

Wow looks like fun! Nice work Randy...what are your plans for a fishery? How's the watershed looking in terms of keeping your pond full pool?

TJ, watershed is ok, but not large enough to keep the pond full - that's where the pump comes in to play. I'm a little concerned about that part of the equation, but we're working on it and hope to have it solved soon. I know it'll work, but we have to get everything coordinated just right.
As for the fish, I'm still leaning toward CNBG, RES, HSB and of course, fatties...

Cleaning and burning between rain showers. More forecast for the next 4 days.

Looks like some good saw logs there for future campfires? Guess you guys out East are surrounded by timber though...being from NE I'd be out there cutting and stacking! I love burning pine/spruce/fir/...especially outside for campfires. Talk about a pretty tall flame!

Project sure looks like it's coming along nicely. Are you able to operate the dozer? That would be blast rolling through and snapping those trees.

TJ, sorry I missed your reply. No I can't operate a dozer or any big equipment.
We've been down for a few days, but up and going strong now. I want to be finished and planting grass this Thursday eve.
What is the best grass to plant right now. Weather is great with possible rain Fri- Mon. I know this has been addressed, but as usual, I don't pay attention until something directly effects me.

OK, here's the latest. The pond builder & equipment, and plumber/electrician are finished and gone and paid. I planted rye & bermuda last Thur and got rain Thur & today.
Water is flowing into the pond from the creek. Not a lot of gpms, but you just work with what you got, right... While we were digging at the far end, we open up a small dribble of a spring. The good thing is that it's about a foot below the water line (when full), and is at least saturating the ground at the end. I have been spending most of my time picking up rocks, sticks and root etc, but it's looking better, and when the grass comes up and the pond fills it should look pretty good. I would guess that at least 90% of us have been through this procedure before, but it's fun every time isn't it??

Dam and pipe bringing in the water.


This is from the other end looking back at the dam. Just off to the right at this end is another pvc pipe that I can switch to for a little water coming in at this end at the same time.


Also, I'm going to build a small dock near the dam, and the plumber/electrician is going to give me about 5 pvc "trees" for structure. I'll have plenty of time for the dock and structure, because it'll probably take 2 weeks+ to fill pond (with no rain).

Nice Job Randy !! You have enough water for FH. With warm temps and rain you should have grass quick.

Yes its a blast every time !!!

Looks just right for the fatheads now.

Don't be too much in a hurry to get a heavy rain. Take a few light rains and some warm weather to let the newly seeded grass take hold and stabilize your soil. A lot less erosion and better results in the end. Congrats on the pond!

Have made a final decision on what fish you are going to stock?

Where is the pump located? What size is the pump? Does the pump run full time or do you have a device that stops it when the pond is full?
I like photos of pumps.

Looks excellent!!

Dwight, I don't have any photos of the pump, but I do have these of the setup
down at the creek. We damed up the creek, and made a two foot pond. We put an old
well pump in the pvc sleeve cut holes in it and wrapped with 1/4" netting and it's
working fine.


Got a cut-off switch down at the creek as well as at the pond, and a valve that will
allow me to drain the pipe in the winter.

Fatties go in tomorrow. They might as well learn early in life that they can't always live
in luxury like they have been for the last three weeks in my wheelbarrow.

What time are you going to let Freedom Ring tomorrow (for the fatheads)?

The fatties will start their Spring Break about 2 pm.
With no predators to worry about, things could get wild!!!

I'm only going to be able to offer a belated toast around 5:30PM.

We talked briefly about fish stocking, but now I am ready to go. The water is up enough for them, and I can't wait any longer. I'm thinking about redears & CNBG. How many for a pond that is about 1/5A now, and will be 3/5A+ when full in 2 weeks max. Predators (probably HSB or female LMB) will come later.

What are your goals for the pond?

I think I'll go for large BG this time.

Bump. Any suggestions about the number of CNBG & RES.

If your goals are large panfish and not LMB, then 800-1,000 panfish per surface acre. 80/20 or 75/25 CNBG/RES. Greg seems to have success when growing LMB fast by doubling that stocking number (IIRC).

Ok, here's the latest. It's been slow filling up with very little rain and only this source of water being pumped up from the creek - been on 24/7 since March 6th.

When the water gets above the bridge in the rocks, I'll probably turn it off.

I built the little dock, and it's working out ok. I piled a ton of sticks and logs under the dock and put a mesh net around the dock to keep everything contained until it sunk. Should be a good place for little ones to hide. Also, got some things planted in above ground boxes on the dam.

In addition to the man-made creek near the dock I ran pvc about 200' further down that side and built another inlet for the water - still the same amount of flow but I can have it entering in two places.

Still got another 2.5-3' before it's full - another month unless we get a good rain.

Looking better. The grass is filling in too.

Your comments, TJ!!!!!!

That place looks great, you did alot of work in a short time, nice progress pics.
Charlie

Thanks, it looks like the water has quite rising. It's been hot with no rain, but I might have some kind of a problem, because the pump is still going 24/7.

Just found this, nicely done Randy - looks like she's filling nicely. I love the dock and raised beds, too. Going to build a feeder platform maybe?

The pond looks GREAT! You sure did do a lot of work in a short amount of time. I'm a little curious about what it cost to run your pump 24/7 for a month.

I'm surprised the water level hasn't risen more though. Is there a way to calculate how much is evaporating a day vs. what your pumping in a day? You mentioned a spring in an earlier post is that under water now?

TJ, yes, I've got the TH feeder, and will put it down at the dock end of the pond when the pond fills a little more. Right now, I hand feed off the dock 3,4,5,6 time a day - just about every time I go down there. And I walk around and throw feed here and there for the fatties. The fish are growing - still no predators, yet. I'm going to wait until fall, when hopefully the water is higher and cooler.
Loretta, thanks for the compliments. I work on it everyday - pickup rocks & stick, and watering this & that. I still think that there is a spring at the far end of the pond. There is wet clay in spots where everything else is bone dry. Years ago (I"m told) there was a creek running thru where the pond is now. The little springs I mentioned earlier in the post are no longer active - probably just pockets of trapped water. When I get the right equipment I'm going to see if I can find a spring at that end - the good thing is that it will probably be above the pond.
As for the cost of the pump: I've only lived here 5 months and the 2 bills that have had a full month of pumping have been $196 & $172. Not bad, since my house/cabin is all electric, so that includes the total amount of electricity that I use.
I've done a rough calculation on the gph that the pump is providing and I get at least 500-600 gph. That's not a lot, but the pond has risen almost an inch a day until about 4-5 days ago. I'm going down to the pond now and re-check my figures.
More later...

Just checked the gph and it is more like 300-350...

After 3 months of 24/7 running, my pump died. Got another one yesterday and we're up and running again. This one is a 1.5 hp and will produce about 12gpm or about 700gph.
I used a ball valve and set it at about 90% flow, hoping this will not stress the motor too much. Is this a good idea???
A neighbor gave me this structure so I'll take it out in my boat and "plant" it this eve...

Looking good Randy...back to pumping and at 200% flow. Be sure not to do any swan diving wherever you place the structure!

If you can, check and see what the pump is drawing amp wise, and see what the motor is rated for. I was told that I should adjust the ball valve so the motor is pulling it's rated amp load.

Here's a picture of my pond now.

The latest pump died after 10 days (bye, bye $400). The water level was completely covering the big rock below my little creek.
I've been losing about 1" per day. Most is probably evaporation, but I still think that there might be a leak, or possibly just effected by the water table. With all that said, I'm buying another pump and charging forward. The two pumps that I've ruined before were deep well pumps, now I'm going with what is called a "shallow well jet pump". It is not submergeable and should work. The smart thing to do would be to let the water slowly go down and down, until I might be able to find the leak, but unfortunately, that's just not the way "I roll" - I'm impatient and too old to change!!

May just be normal wicking and high temps. Good luck. Post a pic of the new pump.

What would be considered "normal wicking"? My pond was completed in the Spring and I still have moisture on my banks almost 1 foot above the water line. How long does it typically take for the soil around a pond to be fully saturated? Does wicking contribute a great deal to water loss or is it minimal? BTW, great work rmedgar!

It never really stops; just slows down. The amount depends on soil type, weather, location, rainfall mounts, etc. Last years major drought eliminated ground water deep enough to kill trees. My ground water level is now down about 5 ft. and it is still sucking around ponds in my area.

Todd, I figure I'm losing at least 1/2"/day to evaporation. Just got my new pump today,
so I'll try to get it started up tomorrow. The banks at the previous high water level appear to still be wet, so maybe the filling process will not take as long as before.

I haven't measured but I'd bet that I'm losing about the same per day. We had some pretty heavy isolated rains roll through the last few days so I'm hoping I'll gain an inch or two but not counting on it.
Would any type of grass seed take hold in the Texas heat on these wet areas on the bank or would it be a waste of time and effort? I've got a lot of exposed soil on the bank and would like to cover it if at all possible.

Bermuda grass. But in the month of July, it will take a considerable amount of water to keep it from dying.

That was my concern. I have no way to water it in and was hoping the moisture wicking onto the bank would be enough. I guess I'll wait till Fall and use rye and then overseed with coastal bermuda in the Spring. That's probably the best way to do it. Thanks!

Any updates amigo? Wicking and evap still taking it's toll? Evap here is killing me, easily 1" daily. Only thing missing for us is wind - been under 10 mph for what seems like 4 weeks. Huge high pressure sitting like a dome over the midwest and keeps the jetstream [plus cool temps and precipitation] far North into Canada. Not sure anything is going to change for us weather wise [5 weeks no rain 95-100 temps] unless the ocean currents shift.

Hey TJ. Welcome to Texas weather patterns.

TJ, thanks for asking. The new pump that I got on 7/7 wasn't what I needed so I sent it back. I've been going back and forth over whether to let it leak/wick/evaporate until the water level stays constant or keep pumping. I've decided to pump no more until I know what I've got (probably more practical than my previous "full speed ahead" approach!
We have gotten some rain lately and cooler weather so that has affected the loss of water per day. I'm down about 2'+. I hate to lose all the water I pumped in, but I'm just going to take a more patient approach and see what happens. I've got a "plan b, c & d", but they are on the back burner for now...

Not much to report - still losing water everyday. I'm just going to let it go all the way down, and get the bottom repacked. I think that the problem is water table related, and when we dug a hole in the bottom to burn everything, it wasn't repacked properly. You can see where the water was at it highest.

Ugh...that stinks. At least you are dealing with a manageable BOW size.

I have major muskrat issues and am wondering if I'm losing water due to their tunneling. I have a trapper coming...but still worry about the damage done.

TJ, ya mean my lessons didn't sink in?

Since you had to do so much work on the pond had you given any thought to just building a new pond where it would be easier to get water into it?

Two neighbors and I have a common creek running through our properties, and there has been some conversation about building a 4-5A pond on a corner of all of our properties, but I really don't want to do that, and even if I did, I'd want to keep my pond (which would not be in the way of the larger pond). Mine continues to lose water and soon it will be down so low that I may start losing fish. I've got a couple of other ideas, but I'll wait and bore y'all with those soon...

Back to square one!!
It leaked and I pumped it back down to down to here.


I've got a good pond builder in now and we are going to work everything out right this time. How things got back to this point is not worth discussing (many of you have been there), so I'll just look at the positive and say that I am very optimistic about the future.
We are digging out all of the old burned trees that were covered over, recoreing the front of the dam and I am adding bentonite, (I bought all the store has - 16 50# bags ($10/per). Back to work will add more later...

Good deal Randy. Will be sending you all the positive pond building vibes I can muster...looks like you'll have increased depth with the stumps gone - maybe it's time to try for the only SMB/YP/HSB fishery in Bama?

Hi TJ, thanks. What would they eat?

Pellets, bluntnose minnows, yoy RES, maybe a smaller species of shiner like spotfin

Smallies like crayfish. Get them started asap when you add other forage. Use rocks and broken piles along the shoreline as refuge. You can't have too much concrete and rocks along the shoreline if you are wanting good crayfish populations. The habitat is also very good for SMB fry. Golden shiner will work well to diversify the forage. IF you don't like the fishery, just add LMB and BG (coppernose) and they will become dominant after a few years. Please Keep us advised if you use SMB so we can monitor how well they do in your region. Remember keep the LMB out until you no longer want SMB.

Ok, recored the dam, cleared stumps, logs etc from bottom, and did a little reshaping, and this is where we are: old cedar lying in the middle, bentonite on far bank, more taper to dam and much sharper banks on right side.

I had a possible hugh lucky break today. I had heard rumors of an old well on the property (25 yrs ago - before city water was available), well, I found it and it has water. Don't know much more, but it has the 8" pvc casing, no pump, but I bought a good one today. It's at the top of the hill in the pines to the right of my house. Have no clue how much water is going to be available, but I think/hope/pray that it's a lot!!!

That's a pretty big casing! What pump did you get? Do you have power near the well casing?

Scott, I bought a used deep well pump from a neighbor. Can't remember the name of the pump. I burned up 2 pumps earlier while pumping water up from a creek - 250' away and 75' below the pond. There is power 75' away at my house. Don't want to get too excited about this, but when I checked for water (dropped small rock) I got a good deep bass sound. I've been following your adventures, and I hope things work out well for you.

Drop a cotton or fiber (natural, not synthetic) rope/string down the casing until it hits bottom. Mark the top of the casing on the rope. Measure down until it is wet, that gives you a head dimension. The total length is the depth of the well.

I tied a wrench to a string and dropped in the well, and I hit water at 30' and the bottom was another 30' down. This is actually higher than my pond. Is there any way I could set up a siphon that will pull water 30-60' straight up, and then about 100' down hill to the bottom of the pond? I'm trying to get an idea of how much water is available before I spend more $$$ on an electrician etc.

You should be able to set up a siphon, but you should have the siphon end in the bottom of the well casing. If the siphon sucks the water out of the casing before it can be replenished, it'll suck air and break the siphon.

Siphon would be super-easy!

Of course flow rate is going to be based on pipe diameter and change in elevation from surface of water to surface of water. I would try and get a bunch of 2" black water line and fittings (or larger if possible). Also some fittings with a Venturi pump in order to use a hose to start the siphon effect (vacuum out the air). It would be tough to do by sucking on the pipe with your mouth.

http://www.aquamerik.com/catalogue/produits.cgi?category=pompes_asuccion&lg=eng

Keep in mind you probably don't have enough pressure to be able to afford aerating the water, so the water will come out oxygen poor.

Once it proves out, you can bury the pipe and make it permanent.

Try a trash pump on it. Could use that to start the siphon. You could also make a stream and have the water enter the pond that way. Running the water over rocks/ etc will get rid of any bad gases and add oxygen.

Thanks, lassig. I just got back from the store with pvc items - I'm trying to do it with a hose down into well connected to a "t" fitting out side of the well connected to another hose running down to the pond. The top of the "t" will be used to fill both hoses, then I go to the pond and uncap that end and hopefully that will work.
After saying all that, I like the idea of the trash pump - I've got a 3" one. Once I get the water running, could I turn off the trash pump and would the siphon still work?
Thanks...

Looks like all the making for a natural waterfall coming soon to a place near you. Really when you have a siphon situation a multistep waterfall can be used for aeration near the end. It also generally comes in handy if your married to say hey honey, why dont we make you a pretty little flower bed with a waterfall next to the pond. We can put a table next to it to sit, relax and listen to the water fall.

If your water surface in the well is 30 feet below grade I believe you are right at the maximum height a siphon will pull. Not positive though.

jsec is right, the siphon didn't work. That's just to far to pull water with garden hoses.
I'm going to rig up my trash pump and give it a shot.

Trash pumps work best when the pump is closest to the water source (aka- the shortest suction hose as possible). Most will state the it can pull water up about 20'. It will be interesting to see if it does work. It may, with just a slower GPM than it would under normal circunstances.

Getting the trash pump primed might be a challenge!

I'm in the process of getting all of my pieces (pipes, pvc etc) put together and will test it tomorrow. Esshup made a good point about priming - I think I can rig it up so I use the last 15' of the old trash pump hose that will allow me to fill all 60' of hose going down into the well. If I can get the water up to and through the pump, it's all down hill to the pond. Do you think I need to prime or would I have a better chance with the pump pulling the water straight up - I can use a standard 1.5" or 2" pvc pipe with an open end at the bottom of the well and try to suck the water up the final 30' to the pump or use the old trash pump and fill all the way up to the pump. Which would be best?
As a reminder, the well appears to be 60' deep with 30' of water. Obviously, I'm hoping for a huge amount of water and not just 30' of water x a 6" pipe!!! We should know tomorrow. Thanks for the interest and suggestions.

After seeing how long it takes for a 3" 16,000 gph trash pump to prime itself trying to suck water up 8', I think you'll have better luck if you give it all the help priming that you can. I had to keep the clean-out on top of the pump cracked open so the air would escape and it still took 5 min or so to get it primed by itself. There was water in the discharge hose, but the pump would keep sucking air that was in the suction hose. I'd keep the cap cracked so the air could get out, and step on the discharge hose get more water in the pump.

It might be easiest to put a foot valve (check valve) on the end of the suction line drop it into the well then fill the suction line before you connect it to the pump.

I would put a "foot valve" at the end of the pipe that goes into the well. It keeps the water from back flowing. Then open the fill valve at the pump and fill the whole pipe going into the well. When the water stops going in, close the valve at the pump and start her up.
What's nice about this setup is that when you shut the pump down for an hour or a week, you don't have to reprime it every time.

Whatever size pipe you have in the well restricts how many GPM the pump can move, no matter how big the outflow pipe is. However, smaller might be better in this case, because how far you are trying to pull the water. The pump is not going to work as good as it is rated because of the pulling distance. Then if that water level drops in your casing, it is going to have to pull further, creating even more work on the pump. Hopefully the water level never drops.

Pumps can push water more easily than pull water. That is why a submersible pump works better.


.....Yep, he beat me in typing my response.........

Thanks guys, back to the hardware store, but thanks to your suggestions, I know how I'm going to do this - hopefully!!

Well, here's the latest. I put a regular well pump in the well and got water to flow. There's not much water there - it flowed for 9 minutes at first, and then yesterday I tried it again and it flowed for 15m+ before I cut it off (it was still pumping). Looks like about 2 gpm, so not worth the effort, but I'll find some use for it in the future.
Since the last update picture it has rained once. Some water accumulated, but I pumped it out again, and added bentonite to certain areas, and raked and packed and have it as ready as it will ever be. Just waiting for some rain. Also, I'm going to pump from the creek like I did last year. I will probably try a different type of pump - last year I used a deep well pump tilted at a 45 degree angle. It worked fine, but I ran it for about 3.5 months 24/7 and I burned it up. More about the pumps later. For people that haven't read this thread, I'll be pumping from a creek that is 75' below my pond and 300' away. I'm leaning toward a 2" gas trash pump, but do have power at the creek, so I'm open to suggestions...
The picture below shows some water I pumped in yesterday. Oh, one other thing, I have routed the water from the roof to the pond also - I connected the well hose and the run-off hose that you see in the bottom.

How big of hose/line did you use the first time in filling the pond?

Used 1", and only got about 12gpm. Could I use the 2" trash pump with the 300'
of 1" pvc pipe? Also, I'll need to do something to try an increase the amount of gas the pump will hold. The pump will be set next to the creek, and pull the water up about 5' before it pushes it up to the pond.

I disconnected the gas tank on the pump, and connected up an outboard motor tank. I'll make a pile of dirt so the tank is higher than the pump. Just make sure the vent is open on the remote tank, and I also like to have a shut-off in the fuel line somewhere.

I've had better luck with a remote tank that has the line coming out of near the bottom of the tank vs. one that comes out the top. The little motor on the pump doesn't suck as much fuel as the outboard, and any little air leak will let the line lose prime, causing the pump to stop. That won't happen with a tank with the fuel line near the bottom.

That's why I asked the size you used, to get a better handle on your situation. You could use the old 1" line. However, I would tend to go 2" if that's what your pump is. You can shop around and find the discharge hose lower priced sometimes. Heck, if you lived closer I would lend you mine, but the shipping is a killer. If you switched to 2", you'll be amazed how much faster the filling will go. I am guessing that it will push aprox 3 times the volume of water than the 1". I had it all figured out at one time when I needed it. Another benefit, you would get more volume of water per gallon of gas. If you could rent a 4" trash pump and hose, I would imagine that you could get it all filled in a day or two (maybe others would know exactly). Of course, your water source would have to keep up with it.

Thanks, for the help. Scott, if it were possible, could I take the cap off of existing tank and tightly seal another tank (rubber made container or 1-2 gal jug) on top - making a much larger gas container. Don't know why that wouldn't work if it were sealed properly.
F&C, Unfortunately, I buried the 1" pvc with the power lines (in the same hole) and it would be risky for me to replace the 1" with 2". As you mentioned, I don't think my creek could keep up with a 4", but a 2" is possible. I'm hoping for some rain, and then see how much water is needed, plus that should raise the creek back to where it was last year.
A few years ago, when I was building a larger lake, I went to a Fire Station in Atlanta and asked about buying some old fire hoses for water transfer - they gave me hundreds of feet of hose free! It worked great...

If you can seal it tightly, then it should work. But, remember that the cap that is on the tank now is a vented cap. If the gas from the added-on tank leaks, you might have a fire.

All I did was pulled off the fuel line from the carb and attached the new one. Not a lot of monkeying around at all. Just make sure the tank on top is empty if you do it that way.

Hi Randy-I had a similar situation to yours, with respect to distance and height, pumping water from a pond to a garden for irrigation.



As a fairly inexpensive and easy to install compromise, you could try using the 1 1/2" black pipe that can be obtained at HD or Lowe's in 50 or 100' rolls. My 2" pump, the cheapest one I could get at TS, seemed to tolerate this increased resistance without any ill effect, and the amount of water moved is impressive. Pump has not been babied and still going strong after 3 years, I don't run it all the time, but many many hours each season.

Oh, and Scott, that's a GREAT idea on the gas tank! I've been trying to think of something to allow the pump to run for a long time.

Thanks guys. Scott, I like your idea - it was dark this eve, I and didn't get a chance to see how hard it will be to do what you suggested. I'm going out of town for a couple of days but will figure it out when I get back. Yolk, I have found a lot of black pipe down in the woods (200+'). The word is the previous owner tried to pump water up the hill to a swimming pool. Do you think that if the first 200' from pump to pond is 2" and then the last 50-100' is 1.5" black pipe, it will work?? The 2" trash pump that I have works great, too. I've used it many, many times and it still works great.

I would sure think it would work.....as I mentioned, the pump I use is able to accomplish the lift through a 1.5" pipe, and I would think that the weight of water though a 2" pipe, though much more than in a 1.5" pipe, would be more than offset by the reduced resistance through the thicker tube. If I recall correctly, the pump came with a vertical rating, but I can't remember what it was.

I'd try to use the tools [tubes] at hand as much as possible before I bought anything-that's how I started with the 1.5" in the first place.

Remember also that air cooled engines can sometimes burn a little more oil than liquid cooled ones, and for that reason they usually come equipped with low oil shutdown systems when they are to be used in an extended run type of situation, such as on a generator. Trash pumps may or may not have this option from the factory, depending on the engine manufacturer.

If they don't, and you increase the run time by adding an external fuel tank, be aware that you need to remain vigilant about checking your oil...

Good point Tony! My engine is a Honda, and it has that feature. The guy that helped renovate my pond had a Mitsubishi engined one that did NOT have that feature. The sand that it was sitting on eroded, and the pump tipped over while it was running. It didn't run for long after that and fixing the oil starved motor would have cost more than buying a new one.

Mine's not a Honda, but still pretty good and use to hard work and neglect. I felt like I was overly pampering the pump two days ago when I changed the oil for the first time in 4 years. It was not a pretty sight!! YS, I'm going to try to work with the pipe that I have,
and see what happens. I think I have enough pieces to make it work. Still waiting for rain to raise the creek and hopefully the pond.
PS - sp. I promise to do a better job concerning the oil...

We've gotten a lot of rain in the last week so that has helped. I'm still going to have to pump, but just waiting and taking advantage of any rain that comes my way. I still want to bring the water up about 5 more feet, but want to make sure I have no more leaks.

Could someone tell me the link to the 5 HP water pump that sets on the water and costs 2000$. I saw the pump last week but was out of town and can't find it now. One more question, does anyone know if a ABS jet pump is a good one. They are Wellmaster 50-75 and are made in Italy. Thanks.

Was it posted on PB? A recent reference to a pump was a link inside of this topic.

Fish,it was on PB and could pump 40000 GPH. It isn't the one you listed but I would like to know how that one works. Just curious, as I am an old shop teacher. Thanks for the reply.

Well, it looks like I still have a leak. This pond was built years ago by damming up an existing creek. That creek has been dry for about 6 years. My water is leaking and it first appears about 50' below the dam (as a small puddle) and follows the old creek bed down to my year-round stream. In places it goes underground and resurfaces further down the creek bed until it puddles up at the bottom (1st picture). The dam is about 200' up hill (30-45 degrees) until it get to the base then its about 60 degrees up to top. This picture is taken from about 175' below the dam.

This picture is what I can see that I'm losing from the leak (about 450 gal/day).
Rough calculation (2oz every 3 sec). I don't know how much else is being lost that I don't see.

When the water first appears, it's a tiny trickle (maybe 1 oz/min), but the ground is soft and I can poke a stick in the ground an hit water above this puddle (back closer to the dam). If you've read this entire thread or if you've experienced this situation, you know my frustration. Don't know exactly what I'm going to do other than let the pond continue to leak until it stops, and try to find the leak, and try to fix it again.

Bummer, Randy. Seems like it's not really bad, but enough that it needs to be addressed and that it nags at you.

With a pond that size it may be worth a shot at using aquagel (drilling mud used by the oil & gas drillers). It comes by the 50 lb bag. There are a few threads here on the subject. It worked on one of ours that had a stray sand area.

Eric, is that similar to bentonite? I mixed in about 25 bags when we redid the base of the dam, and it hasn't seemed to help. Of course the leak could be anywhere, so I'll probably just let it leak on down and start over.

I wonder if there is another source of water/spring that just so happens to be feeding the creek some of the water you are seeing? Hopefully not sourced by the pond... though what you are seeing may be the culmination of all of the water seepage under and around your area.

The real question is if your inflow can keep up with this outflow?

I think maybe another option would be to build a secondary pond downstream and capture/stop this water. If able, you could bring the level up to the existing dam or close enough to it that there isn't enough static pressure difference to force the leak any more. That would save needing to drain the pond, and you would have another BOW as a result of spending more $$$ rather than just shifting some dirt around. Just a thought.

Part of my answer to ls is here in CAPS and the rest is below...


GOOD THOUGHT, BUT THE ONLY PLACE I ALWAYS SEE WATER IS AT THE VERY BOTTOM OF THE HILL - 75' BELOW THE BOTTOM OF THE DAM. THIS WATER IS ALL UNDER GROUND. A DAM 25, 50, FEET FROM THE BASE OF THE DAM WOULD SEE A LITTLE WATER, BUT IT QUICKLY SEEPS THRU THE GROUND.
WHAT YOU SUGGESTED SOUNDS GREAT, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE I WOULD HAVE TO BUILD A DAM AT THE BASE OF THE HILL (75' HIGH) TO HOLD THE WATER AND EQUALIZE THE PRESSURE - PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M OFF BASE HERE. I LIKE THE IDEA OF SMALLER PONDS (LIKE WHAT BEAVERBOY DID), BUT IT WOULDN'T WORK IN MY SITUATION.
THANKS FOR THE THOUGHTS AND SUGGESTION, AND SORRY FOR THE CAPS...

With a couple of good storms my pond is almost 50% full. There is still this leak at the base of the dam. The first hole above the puddle is full of water, the next one has water and the top 2 have moist clay.


The water from the base of the dam goes underground and resurfaces a couple of times until I get this flow just before the water empties into a stream. It measures out to be about 2000 gal/day. Hard to believe, but it 6 ozs every 2 seconds.


Like lsquid suggested, this water could be coming from somewhere else. Oh well, I might eventually build another small pond down near the creek.

Heck, Randy, at the size of those ponds shown in your pictures, why not build a few hundred of 'em? By the way, that is apparently one HUGE cat!

Yeah Todd, that cat is the size of a pregnant blue whale.
Go to my "Back-hoe" thread and remind me what kind of tractor you just got...