M. Paris
Fingerling
Member # 3463
Rate Member posted February 14, 2007 07:51 PM
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Just to add to this interesting topic, we make a unique aeration tubing that is used for shallow application, it is called Bubble Tubing.
Imagine a soft keeled kink free PVC tubing (ballast)fused to another soft PVC tubing with fine holes on both sides. The size of bubbles is similar to the Vertex disc. Every twenty feet section is worth about one disc with 1000 holes. We designed and developed this product to create aeration (which is more like circulation and turn-over)for shallow application where regular methods are not optimal.
Where creative layout and good design is used, it does create movement of water in dead zones. Works with low pressure pumps like linear for small ponds, but is designed to work up to 50 psi for deeper application. We found that aeration works best when each individual lenghts are not exceeding 200'.
Another comment about Dave, I have yet to observe that this method or the Vertex CoActive airbases cycle sediments. In fact, sediment disturbances are observed during installation sometimes for up to 20 minutes. The term "destroys" thermocline is a bit negative, because in many cases, the thermocline is the reason anoxic condition appears in near bottom. Destratification, when used appropriatly is an excellent, inexpensive method of preventing phosphorous to be released from sediments... huge topic! Keep it up, I love it!
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Mario Paris
Canadianpond.ca Products ltd 513 Knowlton Rd, Knowlton, Qc, J0E1V0 tel.450-243-0976
www.canadianpond.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3 | From: Knowlton, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Feb 2007 | IP: Logged |
ewest
Moderator
Member # 1798
posted February 14, 2007 08:22 PM
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Bruce we very much need an aeration thread archived. Once you do I will find some good threads to link to the aeration topics you and Bill think best . For example winter aeration , the dreaded 15 min rule topic , aeration start up and one of Ted's on his experience measuring DOs in small ice covered ponds , and I am sure others.
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Ichthyusiasts read Pond Boss Magazine
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Bruce Condello
Moderator
Member # 1379
Member Rated:
posted February 14, 2007 08:39 PM
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OK, well I've gone ahead and did my best to put it in the archives.
Let's start linkin' the heck out of it.
Welcome, Mario! We're interesting in any aeration information you'd ever like to add. Have you seen the magazine yet? It's a great place to advertise products.
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Cary Martin
Lunker
Member # 1601
Member Rated:
posted February 15, 2007 07:57 AM
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M.Paris,
If a single disc from Vertex has 6600 .5mm cuts, how is your 20' section equal to one disc? Who has tested this product? Do you have any test done yourself? What is the turnover rate at depth? How much cfm per foot is required and what size are the holes where the bubble is released?
There are also cases where you want to keep the thermocline when cold water species of fish are desirable and we do not want to increase the temperature from top to bottom.
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Cary Martin / Vice President
Aeration Technologies, Inc.
599 East Main Street
Burnsville, NC 28714
www.aerationtechnologies.net 800-609-6385
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Posts: 271 | From: Burnsville, N.C. | Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged |
M. Paris
Fingerling
Member # 3463
Rate Member posted February 15, 2007 09:01 AM
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Hi Bruce! Thanks, I have been advertising in the magazine for a few issues already under Canadianpond I believe we were not in the latest issue but we have been from mid summer till winter last year. Our ad was on the page of the Pond Boss Resource Guide.
Cary, I appreciate your questions, I have a Vertex disc on my desk and counted a total of 2900 holes, they may have changed them since you worked there? We have designed and developed this product over the last 3 years and do not have all the answers yet, what we know is that we have the same size bubbles (.5mm cuts x 48 per foot). So if I recalculate we release the same amount of bubbles than one Vertex disc per 60 foot length of Bubble Tubing.
For rates, we have calculated that the optimal range for CFM/ft is 0,02 to 0,045. When we calculate turnover rate, in deeper water (8' or more), we use Vertex' Air lift technology. Like I said, this tubing is not for every application, but mostly allows for a distribution of aeration and circulation over a larger area in shallow application. In fact, up here we sell a lot of this product for deicing docks, traditionally in shallow water.
About thermocline destratification, where you are located you are at the southern range of trout habitat, temperature being a major limiting factor. Up here, most ponds are trout habitat, breaking thermocline in those may mean being able to keep your fish alive, and prevent anoxic conditions and related side effects. But that is too general because each lake and pond are unique and aeration should be carefully evaluated. We even observed anoxic condition under the ice in sediment rich lakes, which prevent trout to survive winter as well. I have experience with winter kill and summer kill and they are not always predictable, mostly preventable with proper aeration techniques. Actually AquaKler seems to be a good fit for sediment aeration bellow thermocline or under ice conditions if circulation of water is not the objective.
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Mario Paris
Canadianpond.ca Products ltd 513 Knowlton Rd, Knowlton, Qc, J0E1V0 tel.450-243-0976
www.canadianpond.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3 | From: Knowlton, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Feb 2007 | IP: Logged |
Cary Martin
Lunker
Member # 1601
Member Rated:
posted February 15, 2007 09:22 AM
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Thank you for the clearification Mario. They must have changed things, heck it has been three years since I have worked there.
I would like to do more work with your product line in the future...Maybe this spring.
I agree with you on the thermocline issues especially in your zone where the surface temperature is not such a drastic difference from the bottom.
We will be working with the AquaKler product this season on our trout ponds too.
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Cary Martin / Vice President
Aeration Technologies, Inc.
599 East Main Street
Burnsville, NC 28714
www.aerationtechnologies.net 800-609-6385
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Posts: 271 | From: Burnsville, N.C. | Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged |
TOM G
Lunker
Member # 3235
Rate Member posted February 15, 2007 09:41 AM
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Im going to have to read this whole thread again.Its too much info too fast(maybe because Im drinking coffee instead of beer!).But I think bottom diffussers are much better...cause THATS what I spent my money on!!!!Just kidding..great thread and info
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If it cant be done the hard way,why bother
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Posts: 56 | From: Dawson Tx | Registered: Dec 2006 | IP: Logged |
Sue Cruz
Lunker
Member # 1640
Member Rated:
posted February 15, 2007 09:56 AM
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I have combined Canadian Pond's Bubble Tubing with our systems in cases where you want aeration or water movement on a shelf or narrow/shallow area of a pond as well as the deeper portions of the pond. For instance a system with 3 air lines, two leading to diffuser disks and one line connecting to bubble tubing.
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Sue Cruz
Vertex Water Features
www.vertexwaterfeatures.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 80 | From: Pompano Beach, Florida | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged |
Cary Martin
Lunker
Member # 1601
Member Rated:
posted February 15, 2007 11:05 AM
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Sue,
What was the scenerio? Did it reslove the weed/oxyen/algae problems that were occuring?
How long was the bubble tubing? How much psi and cfm did you have to feed to it? Did you use XL or standard AirPods on the other two diffuser locations?
Just trying to get a grasp on the results that can be expected from the bubble tubing.
I think it would be a great tool in those areas of a lake, pond or canal, but just have not heard from anyone using it.
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Cary Martin / Vice President
Aeration Technologies, Inc.
599 East Main Street
Burnsville, NC 28714
www.aerationtechnologies.net 800-609-6385
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Posts: 271 | From: Burnsville, N.C. | Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged |
Sue Cruz
Lunker
Member # 1640
Member Rated:
posted February 15, 2007 12:42 PM
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Cary,
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I thought you recomened bubble tubing on this forum last May. You had it on your website, too, under a different name - "AnchorLine SH" - it looked exactly like Mario's tubing - no?
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Sue Cruz
Vertex Water Features
www.vertexwaterfeatures.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 80 | From: Pompano Beach, Florida | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged |
Cary Martin
Lunker
Member # 1601
Member Rated:
posted February 15, 2007 02:18 PM
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Sue,
I am not arguing with you on this forum page. I simply was trying to find out how the bubble tube was used and how it performed in your application.
Yes I did mention it on the forum as a possibility but could not support it without any “real world” experience with it.
I simply am trying to get all the information to the end users who use all our product lines.
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Cary Martin / Vice President
Aeration Technologies, Inc.
599 East Main Street
Burnsville, NC 28714
www.aerationtechnologies.net 800-609-6385
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Posts: 271 | From: Burnsville, N.C. | Registered: Nov 2004 | IP: Logged |
dave in el dorado ca
Lunker
Member # 2716
Member Rated:
posted February 15, 2007 07:34 PM
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time out
naw, fight fight fight
naw, time out
hey this got me thinkin...uh oh.....
circulators, stones, platform diffusers, bubble tubes, hypolimnetics.....sounds like we need a post attempting to classify and organize the aeration tool chest, at least a start.......i.e. in general, what styles of aeration are best suited for what pond types and objectives?
as alluded to in previous posts, protection or destratification of the thermocline is a critical factor to the type of pond (shape, depth and geographic location) and type of fish being raised (trout, smb, lmb, and whatever mixes). what type of aeration and perhaps management of the aeration....24/7, just at nights, summer vs winter conditions.....probably too much to swallow in one bite, but i could see the development of a very useful table providing generalized types of aeration and management comments matched with general pond types and fish populations. just thinkin out loud and re-reading the topic of the thread.
[ February 15, 2007, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: dave in el dorado ca ]
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D.I.E.D.
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Posts: 810 | From: el dorado ca | Registered: Apr 2006 | IP: Logged |
dave in el dorado ca
Lunker
Member # 2716
Member Rated:
posted February 15, 2007 07:46 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Shorty:
One comment, bottom diffusers typically just aerate around the area the of the bubble column, the deeper the diffuser is set the larger the surface area is aerated. With a horizontal circulator you are continually moving the water sidways in one direction and should be able to aerate much larger surface areas but not aerate as deep into the water column, does this sound right?
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this made me think that, in general, maybe the real difference is bottom diffusers create vertical convection cells and circulators create horizontal convection cells....and how these two different types of convection mechanisms affect the pond parameters (DO profile, temp profile, etc.) and which are more efficient for what types of ponds or pond objectives?
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D.I.E.D.
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Posts: 810 | From: el dorado ca | Registered: Apr 2006 | IP: Logged |
Bruce Condello
Moderator
Member # 1379
Member Rated:
posted February 15, 2007 08:25 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by dave in el dorado ca:
...maybe the real difference is bottom diffusers create vertical convection cells and circulators create horizontal convection cells..
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I guarantee that you're correct. Seen it wid' me own eyes, did I.
Not only does this affect circulation/aeration efficiency, but it also has a profound influence on silt suspension and shoreline erosion in smaller ponds. I had to entirely shut off a circulator in one of my ponds because it was tearing shoreline off the edge of the pond and suspending it in the water column. It helped my aeration in one respect (water movement) but hurt it in another (inability to support a macrophyte community).
Lots of questions need answered when it comes to which system to choose.
