Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Lots of heavy equipment operators can speak more to this than I. I found a quick summary of PSI from tracked vehicles online. This is from a Hitachi Ex200, 20 ton excavator. The weight is probably twice your dozer but tracks are also larger. You can plug the numbers in from your dozer. In this example despite 20 ton weight the force on your boot is only 7 psi. It would be interesting to substitute the track area vs weight of your dozer. But either way, the PSI from a dozer tread has come up in other threads and the force generally per square foot is not much different than rolling it with a lawn tractor pulling a drum filled with concrete.

Here is the example I found:

Ground Pressure

Ground pressure is the pressure exerted on the ground by the tires or tracks of a motorized vehicle, and is one measure of its potential mobility,[1] especially over soft ground. Ground pressure is measured in pascals (Pa) which corresponds to the EES unit of pounds per square inch (psi). Average ground pressure can be calculated using the standard formula for average pressure: P = F/A.[2] In an idealized case, i.e. a static, uniform net force normal to level ground at Earth sea level, this is simply the object’s weight divided by contact area. The ground pressure of motorized vehicles is often compared to the ground pressure of a human foot, which can be 60 – 80 kPa while walking or as much as 13 MPa for a person in spike heels.[3]

Increasing the size of the contact area on the ground (the footprint) in relation to the weight decreases the ground pressure. Ground pressure of 14 Pa (2 psi) or less is recommended for fragile ecosystems like marshes.[4] Decreasing the ground pressure increases the flotation, allowing easier passage of the body over soft terrain. This is often observed in activities like snowshoeing.

Example: Average ground contact for a Hitachi EX 200 (20 ton)

Calculate average ground contact area (footprint):
A = length x width
A = 132.1″ x 23.6″ =3115.2 x 2 for two tracks = 6230.4

Calculate average ground contact pressure:
P = load / area
P = 43651.5 lbs divided over the area 6230.4″ = 7 lbs per square inch
P = 7 psi


There are work around's.

Now take the square inches that comprise the grousers only on the tracks. That is going to be about 1/32 the surface area of the entire track. So 32 times more psi compaction capability (bulldozer type grousers, not excavator). Problem is you have to go over the area 32 times to get it. You can greatly increase the compaction capability of a dozer simply by making multiple trips preferably at varying angles. The other caveat is it only compacts to about 2"-3" deep so the lifts have to be shallower. I like to cris-cross. Is it efficient? no. If you have a large area to do, finding a rubber tired scraper or sheepsfoot would be a much better idea. But it is a work around, particularly on a small job. When they figure the compaction pressure of a sheepsfoot they do not figure the drum area. They figure the feet area. It takes multiple passes even with a sheepsfoot to realize its full compaction capability. By using the grouser area of a track tractor the compaction factor is greatly increased. But it takes many passes to realize it.

Another work around with a dozer on a dam, especially a small rather narrow dam, is to compact it with the dozer while going over center. If you only have the center part of the tracks touching, say half, you have doubled the compaction force. Again it is a work around. Is it efficient? No. But it is another method that an experienced operator can do to "make do".

About the only BOW's I have seen a sheepsfoot used in this area is on government jobs. Rubber tire scrapers are used more often but mostly on larger jobs. I would hazard to say thousands of ponds in my area have been built with nothing with a dozer and by and large nearly all hold water. I know of one that did not but my guess is that the area it is in was undermined (old shallow coal mine shafts).

If I put new terraces in a field and get a low spot, I have a pond. It holds water till it evaporates.

I know this forum obsesses over sheepsfoot rollers, but not all areas of the country or soil types require their use. Are they a good idea on any project? Sure. And on a significant size project would be very good insurance. But on a pond less than one acre? I would say they almost are never used in my neck of the woods. I never used one on the three new ponds I have built on my property (did us a rubber tire scraper on the dam and core, but nothing on the bowl). But we have clay pan soils with the subsoil measuring water permeability in very low hundredths of an inch per hour so have excellent material to work with. That is natural, uncompacted subsoil.

So I would not have him filling it back in and starting over just because it was only compacted with a dozer. A good operator on a small project can do quite a bit with a dozer as far as compaction. Sheepsfoot rollers are just not easily rented in all areas. Especially for small jobs. They would be hard to come by here. There are work arounds if you have especially good material to work with. If you have marginal material........... better do it right.

Edit: I added this thread to the list I keep of specialty ponds Here




Last edited by snrub; 10/31/17 09:18 PM.

John

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