Its an old creek bed on the dry side of the dam, thats where the drain pipe comes out of the dam and drains into when the pond gets high enough to drain out. The water is bubbling out of ground in 3 different places in this creek bed. So we feel like the water has made its own way through the dam and is exiting out the floor of this creek bed. At this time no water is comming out the drain. The pond is below the drain. But the creek is running from the water that is comming out these 3 holes in it. The contractor says that at no time should that pipe through the dam be no more than 80% full, even at our hardest rain. Therefore, he says that it could not have that kind of water pressure behind it. But I know for a fact that is not true. I've seen what comes out of that pipe. And the pressure at which it shoots out. After the dye test today we know that there is a hole in the drain pipe that goes through the dam. And the dye comes out of the gound at the base of the dam. I know this is hard to picture. I guess if you picture a water line that has a hole in it. With the water pressure it has going through it will force water through that hole and disolve the dirt around it. Thats what we think has happened. What makes us think the dirt has been drawn back into the pipe and out the end, is the type and color of the dirt that is deposited. That dirt that is dam was brought in from somewhere else and is different that what we have. We do not get much snow to speek of, a dusting or two. This has been a freek accident of weather at the wrong time and the contractor didnt help by not pressure checking the drain before he covered it. To say the least it has been a very interesting experience and an expensive lesson. We are probably going to loose all the fish we orginally stocked it with, plus all that have raised so far. All the comments you have provided have been a great help, and I do appreciate your patients with the long posts. We will give you updates as to the progress. May our lesson can be of some use to someone else along the way.