Originally Posted By: esshup
In the ponds where I've stocked Papershells, I've never seen any burrows. But, there is also rip-rap or broken pieces of concrete that has cavities between the rocks to form natural burrows for them to hide in. Since crayfish can and will crawl over land to reach new bodies of water, the ones that are only found in streams and creeks might not stay in your pond, they prefer flowing water.


Ok, thanks. The ones I am thinking of (which I believe to be Northern till I get a chance to catch some and actually look at them again closely) actually are in a small seasonal stream that runs by the backside of the dams on both of my ponds. When I caught them as a kid and later caught them for my kids when they were little we always caught them in the rock crossings that my dad had made out of sandstone rocks he picked up out of the farm fields. A low water crossing of a small creek. We have two of them about an eight of a mile apart. The streams do not run in the dry part of the summer but have pools that keep water in them in all but the very most severe drought. We could always find small crawdads by turning over the rocks and catching them by hand or a small dip net. So this particular variety would be used to at least part of the year having no running water. But they might want the running water (nearly always in spring here) to reproduce so I can see your point of them migrating for "greener pastures".

On another note, the borrowing type (which I believe to be the Devil crayfish till I get a chance for identification later) are often found at the water entrance of about any old pond in this area that has a shallow area that floods then goes dry. Or in about any of the flood plain along creeks with the proper conditions. Pictures below of old crawdad burrow holes that have filled back up. This were found during excavation of the pond where the holes existed, then filled up with muck during a later period after the hole was abandoned. Thus the change in color of the soil. Found these at my old pond in a shallow area during refurbishing. Found these in sons pond in the bottom where the dam had been breeched for many years and the pond had really turned into a seasonal mud hole instead of a pond. And found these while digging new portion of daughters pond near a seasonal creek under about 4 feet of soil (probably ancient crawdad holes covered up by a hundred years of sediment).

I have found at least one piece of literature that states the burrowing type rarely cause water loss from the pond. This seems to be in conflict of the general message here on PBF. My suspicion is that in my particular area where they are native, they will nearly always show up in areas that tend to stay wet and may seasonally flood. Found evidence in all three old ponds I have refurbished. I also suspect in our clay pan soils (where there is no clay liner to be perforated and we do not have to have compacted pond bottoms to hold water) the burrowing does not cause that much concern. I can't recall ever seeing the mounds in a pond dam (not saying they can't be, just saying I have not observed it). I always see them in a seasonally wet area where the water enters the pond from the watershed. But having said that (that I'm not too worried about that type draining a pond in SE Ks), they also probably would do very little in the way of being beneficial as fish forage. They spend most of their lives in a burrow near the pond but not in the pond, where they could be consumed by the fish.

So for fish forage it seems I want a type that lives in the water. The paper shell seems the recomended variety here on PBF. But I am thinking that maybe the Northern variety may be very similar to the paper shell, but just the locally resident and adapted variety to this area. After all, the paper shell (Calico) is shown to be native to the northern part of Kansas, but not here in the south. If the Northern would be similar to the paper shell in characteristics, but better adapted to this area, they might be a better choice than the paper shell plus the additional benefit of not introducing a non-native species.

I'm mostly thinking out loud esshup and Bill Cody. These are just thoughts I am coming up with from reading more than I ever previously knew I wanted to know about crayfish last night, and thinking of possibilities for my new tiny forage pond. I am in no way trying to say my opinion is correct, but am bouncing ideas off you guys and others to see if my logic and way of thinking has merit.

Currently I am thinking it would be of no benefit of stocking the burrowing type (though probably of no great harm in our particular situation because we have the burrowing type everywhere there is seasonal water like in road ditches and even in ponds if we have the correct conditions to support them). The type that live in creeks and streams might work out well, or as esshup suggests they might just migrate back to the (very close nearby) stream they came from.

Just thinking out loud and seeking input. I would not mind ordering some of the soft shell (Calico) but am concerned of several web sites talking about Kansas and Missouri discouraging introducing non native species. Although I would imagine bait shops probably sell the Calico.

I don't recall ever setting foot in a bait shop. Maybe it is time I did and do some inquiring. wink

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Last edited by snrub; 04/04/14 11:40 AM.

John

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