Erric, You ask: “Would a few walleye serve as a good check on the perch? I plan to stock fat head minnows in a few weeks or so and add the perch in June. Any walleye would have to wait till the fall when available from the supplier”.
Here are some comments and several links to previous discussions about WE and YP in ponds. There are some good ideas and information in the discussions. At the end are some of ewests and my comments about YP & BG from previous posts.
About training wild perch to eat pellets:
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000054
Stocking YP, SMB, PS, and GSH?
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000005
YP and WE realistic combo in ponds with long discussion of WE stocking & growth in ponds.
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000042
Sources for YP in south central eastern US & tolerance to shipping.
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000046
Sexing YP, how quick to harvest, and several YP experiences in ponds.
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000103
Central MI, ¾ ac pond, YP and HSB?
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000174
NY small (0.2ac) pond, YP and what type of predators?
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000173
OH 0.5ac pond with HBG, RES, & minnows. Add YP and bass?
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000144
MD 1 ac pond, YP & HSB possible??
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002091
Yes I think some WE will eat some small YP in the pond. How many they will eat is the key item. I think WE require a little better water quality as mainly higher dissolved oxygen conditions compared to YP. Thus YP will generally survive where WE will not. So slightly higher water quality is best to both species together. Not a lot of pond owners have done WE pond stocking for long enough and reported back to us the results to get good dependable data and experiences.
As I learn and hear more about the status of WE in ponds managed mainly for YP, my opinions and ideas about WE are evolving from what I have posted in the previous posts. When growing YP and WE, as with any fish, AMPLE foods are important for both YP & WE to grow well in a pond. Sometimes it is not really important that the WE grow well. You want them JUST as predators eating small 2"-4" YP Both adult YP and WE should be considered predators that eat primarily small fish assuming small fish are the most prevalent forage. Fusiform shaped, soft rayed fish are IMO the best fishes for growing YP and WE in ponds. I generally plan on each WE eating between 200-300 small fish per year depending on what type and how many small fish are present. Each YP will often eat fewer small fish per year because they are opportunists and will also eat various types of invertebrates and some small snails in their diet. However in most YP dominated ponds the YP will by far outnumber the WE so as a group the YP could eat lots more small fish than the WE.
Firstly, I don’t think YP by themselves in weed free ponds can produce enough offspring to feed both numerous adult YP and some WE while expecting optimum growth rates for both types of the predators. Again optimum growth of WE may not be wanted. Good growth of both can work to varying degrees if fewer or each type are present and if managed closely. I don’t believe, and I have never seen a pond so far where FHM are the main forage fish and they are able to sustain high numbers as forage in the presence of numerous adult YP and some WE. For this, IMO it takes a diversity of at least two or several types of minnows/shiners to sustain constant predation by YP and WE. It also helps to feed the minnows to keep minnow production high and to visually monitor numbers of minnows and small YP.
This situation of maintaining enough ideal minnow forage and my numerous experiences are the rationale for my belief that the better YP dominated ponds with numerous big YP, will be those where at least the initial stocking of YP are trained to feed on fish pellets. Occasional, supplemental stockings of pellet trained YP will help keep numerous pellet eating YP present as older YP are harvested and experience natural mortality. I am convinced that having pellet feeding YP does help train some but definatly not all new YP to eat pellets. Pond size has a lot to do with this feature. The more pellet feeding YP that are present in a small pond the less predation pressure there is on the minnow community; thus, generally more minnows survive; a good thing. Large YP can be grown in ponds. But one will grow more and larger YP quicker,,, if the perch are regularly feed pellets, especially in the smaller pond. This is not a secret. The same thing tends to be true for other fish species.
Back to walleye in ponds. Don’t expect WE to grow fast and get to trophy size in ponds. IMO their main function is to reduce numbers of smaller YP. Experiences are that WE do not grow fast nor trophy size (5lb+, >23-25”) in ponds, especially smaller ponds. This I am learning can be a good thing. For a YP dominated pond, IMO, it is better to have a non-reproducing predator and one that is slow growing and tends to say smaller because the predator is forced to eat smaller fish. Plus they are not reproducing and creating unknown numbers of numerous new predators, as bass often do. This is a good situation in a YP dominated pond because the top predators are not growing quickly to larger sizes and eating larger cleanable YP, and lots of new predators are not being added to over-eat the minnow forage base. Remember ample minnows keep the non-pellet eating YP growing rapidly to harvestable size. LMB esp the ones over 13” will eat larger YP and SMB will usually reproduce to annually introduce at least some new fish eating predators in addition to the common or abundant adult fish eating YP. Although at times, LMB and SMB work well in YP ponds. I've had SMB reproduce in a pond where SMB should not reproduce, i.e. hard packed clay bottom. In some situations careful harvesting of the bass & YP can help maintain an optimum balance.
Option 1. Lower number of WE. Normally I and others have suggested only several WE per ac, usually 15-20/ac in YP dominated ponds. WE were present to be a bonus fish and just HELP thin out the small perch while the owner helps annually to manually remove small perch -2”-5”. Manual removal of YP is with traps and angling. WE are caught occasionally. I normally do not stock WE until the YP have spawned one to three times to provide higher numbers of small YP for the WE to choose compared to minnows. This normally also allows the minnow forage base to become well established and abundant. Large YP will also eat small YP.
Option 2. Higher number of WE. I am seeing in some YP ponds that having more WE than 10-20/ac can be a good thing. WE numbers up near 50-100/ac with lots of minnows continually present with low weed cover does result in slow growth of WE who seem to effectively ‘target’ the smaller YOY and 1 yr old YP. Larger WE of 16”-18” will feed on 4”-5”+YP. Keeping lots of minnows present can be a difficult part of Option 2 . Shiners and other minnow species can help a lot to diversify the forage base. After time a majority of YP do not eat pellets. After 7-10yrs these ponds often have large YP and WE that are 19”-20” long. Periodic restocking of WE to replace those harvested is done. WE are caught more frequently in Option 2 ponds.
The amount of dense cover has a big impact on all fisheries including the one dominated by YP. Generally the more submerged weed growth, the more numbers of small fish that survive. Plant management is a key item – pro and con. Some weeds can be very beneficial (protection for small fish minnows) while too many weeds very detrimental because predators cannot locate enough forage (small YP) to keep them under control.
Having a good crayfish population present helps to diversity the forage base for YP & WE. A ‘good’ population of crayfish present also helps reduce to varying degrees the submerged vegetation.
Erric - I say, develop a plan, implement it, keep good records about your fish growth, the harvested numbers, and report back to us with your results. If the stocking / management does not work well, your YP-WE pond can be easily converted to a bass (SMB or LMB) - BG pond. Just add a pair of each species and they will in time definitely reproduce and eventually dominate the pond - guaranteed. But, you cannot covert a bass-BG pond into a YP pond just by stocking YP. Please keep us advised how things work out for you. We need more walleye data from small ponds.
Additional information.
1. Bottom structures will congregate perch for fishing. Bottom structures like tree branches in shallow water (2-6ft) will provide perch places to lay their egg strands.
2. One or several small gravel beds will provide smallmouth bass a place to spawn if you ever decide to stock SMB to help control over abundant numbers of small (2"-5") perch.
3. 5"-7" perch for $1 ea is a fair price. Where are you buying them? - the fish farm at Imlay City or The Perch Farm in Standish? or somewhere else?
4. You will have very little success feeding them unless they have been raised previously on fish pellets. BE SURE TO ASK AT THE HATCHERY IF THE PERCH THAT YOU ARE GETTING ARE PELLET RAISED. If you decide to feed them buy some pellets at the hatchery when you buy your fish. This way you will be sure to get the correct type of food and the perch will be familiar with the same food in the beginning of your feeding sessions. Pellet Feeding the perch will help supplement their diet and not as many minnows will be needed initially for proper and fast growth.
5. Eric gives some basic advice for raising perch. Read it carefully.
6. Initially stocking 200 of 5" to 7" perch is going to require a fair amount of minnows or some other type of food to get these YOUNG ADULT fish, in terms of health and good growth, through the fall, winter and early spring.
During winter, perch need a fair amount of fat and or food so their eggs develop properly. Eggs are laid in early spring which will be around mid to late April in the thumb area of MI. I estimate that each 5"-7" perch will eat approx 50-100 minnows before perch spawning time. Many of the minnows will be eaten in March, and April of 2006 when spawn time is near. Some excess minnows should be initially stocked so perch have food when spawn is over and to maintain perch until a minnow spawn starts in May or early June. Minnows may need to stocked again in April or May of 2006 if you don't see minnows around the edge in shallow areas. To calculate; 200 perch x 100 minnows each = 20,000 minnows. Approx 300 2" minnows per pound = 66 lbs of minnows should supply enough food until the next minnow spawning season. You may not want to stock all young adult perch right away in your pond!
Typically in a new pond, I recommend first stocking minnows and allow them to spawn several times to FIRST build up an abundant supply of minnows; THEN later stock perch so they have abudant food and produce good growth. Another popular option is to in spring (March-Apr) of 2006 stock some 2"-4" (50%-70%) perch and some 5"-7" (30%-40%) perch along with an abundant supply of minnows (10Lbs-30Lbs). Hopefully most of the minnows will survive through the summer to spawn and provide a continual supply of food to feed existing perch and maybe some that are newly hatched from the 5"-7" original stockers. With ample food the 5"-7" perch will grow to 8"-10.5" by late fall of 2006 and a few larger perch can then be harvested for table use.
I think in a pond primarily stocked with y.perch, it is important to maintain a sizable population of larger 9"-12" perch. This is done by selectively harvesting certain sizes of perch and releasing other desired or protected sizes. These larger perch (12"-14") will not only provide exciting panfish angling but they will eat fair numbers of newly hatched perch (young of year) and thus help control the numbers of youngster perch. In many instances, the large perch need help in reducing the abundance of small perch so young perch do not become too crowded that will cause a growth slow down (fish stunting). When this happens, and as a fix, usually an appropriate type of predator is added to eat smaller perch and small perch are ALSO manually removed. Doing both methods will quickly put the perch population back into a better balance so proper fish growth resumes. Knowing what sizes of perch to remove can be a somewhat tricky task and help can be provided here when the time arrives. Proper predators are discussed in some of the topic references noted above.
As Eric says, perch and many other types of fish will stunt and become over abundant without proper population control. Perch are not unique to stunting of growth. Perch often become overabundant when lots of weed growth is present and not enough large perch are present (due to overharvesting) to help eat most of annual production of small perch. Numerous things can contribute to an over abundance of yellow perch in a pond.
I have written 3 magazine articles for beginners about raising yellow perch in small ponds. M.todd if you would like to have copies of them and if you email me I will send them to you.
Post by EWEST:
U. S. Department of the Interior, Fish and Wildlife Service, Stanford University, California Burton P. Hunt
Michigan Institute for Fisheries Research, Ann Arbor, Michigan
Abstract.—During the winter of 1940-41, 1,128 bluegills and 211 yellow perch were collected from the rather productive Cedar Lake, Washtenaw County, Michigan. Analyses were made of the contents of the stomachs of these fish.
Bluegills consumed very little food during the winter. The average stomach contained 133 organisms of which 124 were plankton. The average volumetric content of these stomachs was 0.036 cubic centimeters. Foods consumed were predominantly aquatic insects (mayfly nymphs) in early winter; changed to plankton (Cladocera) in midwinter; and tended again toward aquatic insects as spring approached. There was some correlation noted between prolonged periods of warm weather and an increased rate of food consumption.
Yellow perch ate much more food than did bluegills during the winter. The average volume per stomach was 0.26 cubic centimeters. Young bluegills constituted the great bulk of the perch diet. They formed over 60 per cent of the total volume throughout the winter. Ostracoda were eaten in great numbers in midwinter.
Winter predation by perch on young bluegills certainly must be an important factor in regulating the bluegill population.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/18/11 09:57 AM.
