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#276187 12/28/11 09:03 PM
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First Year Fish

Here are a few pics of our fist two LMB caught in our one year old pond. The pond was stocked in Feb with 600 3 inch fingerling LMB, and now Here are the first two LMB we caught. I got the first, and my Boy got the second, which took the lake record after only 24 hours!

The first one was 1 LB 13 OZ and the second one was 2 LBs 2 Oz both had great body shape and were full of energy!

Both were about 15 inches plus or minus an inch or two (I did not have a tape).
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Congratulations! That is great news and great growth.

Can you post a link or refresh our memories of how/what you stocked?


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Sunil #276315 12/30/11 02:23 AM
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Sunil,

Back in Feb 11 we stocked:

1000 CNBG 4 inch
1000 RES 4 inch
1000 HBG 4 inch

600 Crappie 3 inch
600 LMB 3 inch

350 CC 10, 12, 14 inch

The pond was built in Nov 10 it will be around 11 surface acres when full, but with the drought it has not gotten above 6-7 surface acres. I do have a few springs feeding the pond, but during the heat of the summer, it did loose around 1 foot. Currently the pond has rissen around 3 feet since the rains started this fall.

I was a little speechless when I realled in the first bass, I never expected that kind of growth ( I expected around 1 Lb growth this first year). In fact, I am a little concerned at that growth rate. Is there any danger to this kind of growth rate? I am planning to add aeration this spring. I believe my BG spawned at least three times and I have some evidence to think they might have spawned 4-5 times in our big pond. The water temperature did not go below 60F until some time in Nov. The pond was built to promote fish, ducks, deer, and other wanted wildlife.

I look forward to any thoughts/ inputs or questions.


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Are you feeding pellets to the fish?

It does not seem like you have a huge forage base, but something is working.

Any chance of someone having put a few adult bass in your pond?

I don't think the jury is back in for long term health effects of fast growing fish, such as liver or organ problems. But I think any concerns on this might have been from pellet fed, fast growing fish, not from natural forage-fed fish.

Were there no fatheads or shiners stocked? Threadfin shad?


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Sunil #276346 12/30/11 02:26 PM
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Sunil,
I feed the fish 150 Lbs of floating catfish food over the summer in three areas of the pond. I also tossed in leftover bread for another maybe 50 Lbs. The catfish, bluegill and minnows would eat the catfish food and bread.

It is very unlikely that anyone would have tossed in adult fish but if I catch another I could always check the growth rings to be sure. The water from our creek was caught in our little pond(Just down stream from the big pond) for a year and a half before we built the big pond, but I have no evidence of any LMB in the little pond. I stocked it with CC, CNBG and FHM.

I did not add minnows to the big pond, but it naturally had a lot from the little pond. I have a lot of pictures showing large schools in the big pond very early this spring. I assumed they came from the little pond as expected. I still find minnows all around the pond in good numbers.

I am excited to see that Mother Nature seems to be happy with our efforts so far!

Any other thoughts?

Again, thanks for the help.


Brian

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The bread probably does not help the fish at all. They are not made to eat any kind of carbs. It's all water & protein (bascially) for them.

If your LMB eat pellets, you might try some of that newer Aquamax 600(?) that is like dog-food sized chunks of feed.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Sunil #276383 12/31/11 03:25 AM
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My bass have never been trained to feed on pellets and I don't really want to start that. I am trying for as natural as possible pond with the addition of aeration. I am trying to balance the food chain with fertilizer for the phytoplankton and starting with the right fish combinations. If I get really big bass, great, if I only get normal size bass that is great as well. I am really trying for a natural balance.

The bread is really for the catfish and only tossed in occasionally. it is fun to toss it in and watch them come to the surface and shovel it in.

This spring should be interesting, I'll let everyone know how my stock is doing and see if I have balanced it correctly or if I have to correct the balance.


Brian

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I also prefer a 'natural' type setting, but the pellet feed does amp the forage base also.

You are getting great growth. It will be interesting if you have the proper forage base for the next level of growth. As the LMB get bigger, they'll need bigger forage to continue that great growth.

You might want to consider threadfin shad.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Sunil #276397 12/31/11 12:36 PM
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Couple more thoughts....

How are the crappie and CC's doing, sizewise?

Have you seen YOY LMB? Yours are big enough to have spawned.

Culling may be something that has to be started, and the crappie and CC will eat on some of the forage base.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Sunil #276481 01/01/12 03:36 PM
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The CC are doing great. I have not yet caught a Crappie, but i have not been crappie fishing yet. I plan on fishing for them this spring. Any thought on what to use to fish for the crappie?


Thanks.


Brian

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I use smaller minnows (fatheads or shiners).

In the early spring, once you find the crappies, you can usually catch a ton in the same spot. Finding the proper depth is the first challenge.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Sunil #276556 01/02/12 05:08 PM
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Highflyer keep us posted Im excited for you and the smile on your son's face is worth it all. However it is not what I would have recommended at all for your goals. Maybe I can learn here.

First where in the world did you get fingerling 3 inch bass in Feb? That would have to be really poor growing bass from 2010.
Have you caught a good many bass? Im afraid to say this but with the high predator and low forage stocking many may have straved and so left with few but that is why they are growing well, let hope not. Main question what does your bluegill look like, lots come up to the bread what is avg size. Good luck and thanks for sharing.


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I got the fish from a guy in Arkansas who turned out to be a scam artist. He is now under court order to be out of the business. He got them from a hatchery in Arkansas.

About catching Bass, I have only tried once to catch any of them with this being the ponds first year, so when I caught those two in murky water, I was excited.

My Bluegill are doing great. I have been catching and trapping them all summer long and checking their growth. I have lots and lots of pictures showing great growth and I documented at least 3 spawns and I can show evidence of 5 total spawns with pretty good certainty. I catch bluegill all the time all over the pond. The CCs are also doing great. Both CC and BG are at or above standard weights/length.

Here is a link to my Google Plus photo album for the RES I stocked and how one looked in Jul 11 and on of the spawned RES also in Jul.

https://plus.google.com/photos/101370842485428298303/albums/5662017220221982721

I have a lot of pictures showing the fish sizes and colorations. In short, my BG are doing great! and so are my CC. Then LMB I have caught also seem to be doing real well. I just need more samples to be sure.

About LMB YOY, I have not caught or seen any yet. I have seem several spawning beds this summer, but with the drought, I did not have time to make a full survey of the fish. This spring should be the real test.

If you would like I will post a link to some of the video I took of the BG and CC feeding near our dam this summer, but I don' t want this thread to wander too much.


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So you bought from Rex Allen Curtis or one of his names?

At least you got something out of it!

Greg's question was more pointed than mine, but it's the same. The forage base seems way, way too low to get those kind of growth rates. So naturally, everyone is curious.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Sunil #276608 01/03/12 01:09 PM
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I did go through Mr Curtis, and I testified at his last trial. It was satisfying to see him held in contempt of the court. The $62,000ish fines and restitution was also good to see. I doubt I will ever see a penny, but that was not the point of testifying. I wanted to make sure he did not take advantage of other descent people who just retired, built a pond and wanted to stock it, but they did not know much about stocking.

I continue to work with the authorities to ensure his compliance. And to be fair, I did ask a lot of questions to the local NRCS and county agents as well as others about him and the fish he was recommending. The bottom line was that I knew a little so I was not taken advantage as much as others. After that, it was up to mother nature to do the rest. I believe I was blessed way beyond my deserving.

I have been very engaged in counting, weighting, photographing and measuring my BG and CC this year because they are easy to trap and catch. I have also surveyed the minnow population and it remains strong as well. I have minnows all over the place.

I don't know if I made it clear, but I left a large uncleared area that is now flooded. There is a lot of cover back there and the fish seem to be doing real well as I see a lot of action early in the morning and in the evening in those waters as well as in the more open water of the front of the pond.

I think that next year I will consider having Bob or some one else do some electiro-fishing to sample our pond just to get a better baseline. Of course, I will post on pondboss anything I learn.


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Ok Brian glad your pond is doing well especaily considering you go them for a crook.

My guess at this point with all you have said is either you received much fewer bass than you were told, or they were very poor fish, or they had too much competetion and died. My point being I think your bass density might be low curently. Great for quality bass fishery actually maybe not great if you want to catch lots of bass. Not a big issue you can stock more bass if I'm correct. Like you said you will know more this spring. Might want to start tagging bass.

Yes Sunil Im blunt and hope things come out the way I intent. Just trying to help, and hope folks understand that.


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Brian,
I think an electrofishing survey, in your case, is wise. The originally stocked fish, in six to seven acres of water, could have built a decent food chain, primarily because the bluegill were large enough to reproduce and the bass were small enough to not overeat the food chain...in the beginning. That helps explain how you have five or six size classes of Age 0 fish. I'm with Greg about those bass, though. Three inch bass in February were hatched the previous April, so at three inches, they were "held back" by the hatchery in order to have a supply at that time of year. "Normal" bass that age should be at least eight inches long, hopefully bigger.
The fact that you have bass so large right now is not necessarily unusual. They are most likely females to be so large, so fast. But, I do think it's a good idea to get a benchmark of where the fishery is. Ordinarily, I don't recommend an electrofishing survey until the third year after stocking a new lake. In this case, I think it's a good idea, in case you need to do some remedial stocking or adjust your feeding.
Maybe we can have a Pond Boss "regional" meeting out the next March?


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Greg, you can't hurt my feelings! I love when people are straight with me, it makes it easier to get to the bottom line, besides, if I screwed it up, I will be the one fixing it anyway. I got about 16 LBs of LMB 3 inch fingerlings. It was suppost to be 600. Does anyone have a formula handy to calculate the number I really got?

Here is a link to my google plus photo album showing the fish on the day they were stocked.

https://plus.google.com/photos/101370842485428298303/albums/5662017220221982721

By the way, what is the right way to tag LMB? do I really need tags or is a fin cut just as good?

Another by the way, I realized that I had not yet made the RES pictures linked above public but that has been fixed.

Bob, everyone is welcome anytime. I don't go to training for my new jet until late may or June so March sounds great. If April is needed that will be okay as well. Either month should be no problem, I just hope you guys don't want a fish fry!!

Like I said, you guys will hear it here as soon as I know anything more.


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A 3 inch bass shoud weigh about .01 lbs. So that would mean you got 1600. I suspect either you got less than 16 lbs or they were bigger than that which makes since Feb followign sprign hatch. With that guy who knows what you got.

ON our page are two videos on tagging. http://lakework.com/site/media.php

Fin clip would mark a fish. I thought tagging with numbered tag was good idea to track your growth of the bass you catch.


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Greg, Got it. The videos make sense and it seems easy enough to do. I guess I will be adding that to my inventory of stuff!

Does it make sense to tag every LMB? or is there a group size I should tag?

By the way I also had a crapload of frogs and tadpoles in our pond this year, I am thinking they help to feed the bass as well. I have a few pictures of the tadpoles (I took them for my sisters class). I watched them bob to the surface all summer long by the dam and a few other places.


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Brian let us know when you want the tag kit shipped, hint hint. After one or two bass you will be a pro. The fact you had frogs and tadpoles into season means you probably had low bass also. Until you get a good many bass tagged do them all. You want to see if all sizes of bass are growing so best to do some of each size. GL.


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Brian:

I bought the kit from Greg, and bought the nunbered floy tags. That way I can track each individual bass that's tagged. That's what I'd do if I was tagging LMB that were already in the pond. If I was tagging a new batch of stockers, then I'd use the non-numbered tags to track that "class" of LMB.

I removed about 80 LMB from my pond last year, of all sizes (6" to 4#) and replaced those 80 with 42 14"-16" feed trained LMB. I tagged each one of those LMB and have them recorded on the computer. That way when I re-catch them, I can see how each individual fish is growing.


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Esshup, thanks for the confirmation. I talked to Greg this morning and I am going to be ordering the numbered tags and I will be tracking my LMB for sure and I might be tracking the Crappie as well if I find the need ( of course, I have no idea if tagging Crappie is a good thing to do or not, it will be yet another learning point for me).

Greg, thanks for taking the time to talk this morning, I will be ordering the tags this week.

At this point, photographing, tagging, measuring, and weighing seems like the right thing to do. I am planning on an electo-fishing evaluation with Bob this spring and then we should know for sure what we have in the pond and if any corrections are required.

Again, "thank you" to all for the help and information.


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Brian is picture 22 of 26 the bass? I think they were more like 4-5 inches which makes sense for Feb stocking. Yes you can tag a crappie. Tag gun should be on its way and we will keep after the guy to make the measurign board start at zero.


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Greg, pictures 12 and 22 are the Largemouth Bass. I don't remember the size exactly, but 3-4 inches is what I remember but I could be wrong. In picture 12 the bass are in a normal sized dip net and in picture 22 they are in a 5 gallon bucket about half full of water and fish (in case you know the dimensions of the net holes or the bucket to estimate their size). When I get back to the house, I'll see what else I can come up with.

To measure their length, I'll be using a simple tape measure for now, but I hope to be using a permanent solution soon!

Can I assume that the Crappie are tagged the same way as the LMB? I plan on fishing next weekend and I hope to busy tagging LMB and possibly some of the Crappie depending on what I am catching. I plan on writing down date, length, weight, and sex, is there any other data I should record? I'll also record the water temperature and O2 levels if I get my ODO back by then.

I'll review the videos again before using the tagger so I get it right from the start.

Thanks again for all the help.


Brian

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