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Given the flooding event, the GSF could have come in that way. Is it just me ... or do those catfish look like yellow bullhead?


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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I am not a catfish id expert so I would defer to others. They don't look like typical CC to me. Could be the pics.

[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

Last edited by ewest; 11/11/20 02:30 PM.















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Danbob Offline OP
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Thanks again. I assume that you think that HBG 1 is more GSF heavy and HBG 2 is more HBGish? Thanks for the links, that saved me a lot of time and I'm happy to see that a lot of the more experienced guys are still questioning the conclusions! I see where there are a lot of items to consider and maybe some GSF were mixed into my lot of 100 HBG. This is what they looked like when I first put them in. Do you think they could have accidentally given me GSF instead of HBG?

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I think you guys are great! I think you're politely telling me that what I thought were HBG are GSF and what I thought were CC are BH ! I'm cracking up and super glad I put "Newbie" as my middle name! I don't think the flooding event brought in the GSF, if I'm comparing all the attributes correctly, my last post has "Fish 3" pic in it and it sounds like that's a GSF? So now it sounds like I better research the spawning data on GSF and cull the GH which are now about 12". It looks like the quickest way to tell BH and CC apart is the forked tail, so I'll check that out. Great stuff....thanks guys!

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I am not saying that. I agree with your comment " that HBG 1 is more GSF heavy and HBG 2 is more HBGish". That is a lot different than saying it is a GSF - genetically a huge difference. I have seen some HBG that look like fish one and they are included in the post with pics. Those are the reasons I think you should quiz the hatchery. It would be good to know so you can make the best management decisions.
















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Dan,

I have never seen an HBG look any more GSF-ish than that. Don't discount the possibility that GSF along with BH invaded your pond during high water. Both like to go upstream in high water and have reputations for showing up where they were not planned or wanted.

If your water temp is still above 60, you might consider getting some predators in there ... or at least by next spring. Some advanced fingerling size would be better. There will be a fair amount of reproduction next year.

Those BH are pretty good to eat as long as water isn't muddy. Here is a fast way to clean them.

Last edited by jpsdad; 11/11/20 08:34 PM.

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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OK, I've pinged the supplier of the HBGs to see if anyone else has reported similar issues, but I can also explore the option that the GSF came in during the flood. If so, it sounds like my culling just got a lot easier, just start keeping the GSF for the dinner table and throw back the HBGs, assuming I can tell them apart! If I want to go down the predator path, what are some suggestions? LMB? And you're suggesting these to eat the spawn of the GSF to keep them from taking over? My son's on the local High School Fishing Team, so I have access to CC or LMB or Crappie, etc. I also reached out to the pond owner downstream to see if he'll engage with me to see what species are in his pond. Thanks as always guys. Keep the suggestions coming.

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Dan,

Predators are precious. In the waters I try to manage by harvest they are the piece that is insufficient to grow large BG. Its tough when the water is public. Between harvest of the LMB and mistreatment (have on one occasion observed an angler using his foot and pavement to stable the fish for hook removal). Oddly he was very proud of himself for having released the fish.

There really can't be too many LMB if you want large pan fish... provided ... your LMB are able to attain lengths of 8" to 10". See to this piece and you will grow some dandy pan fish ad infinitum. LMB are precious to a pan fish pond, make them work hard for a living, they are working for you. Your pond is small enough to manage pretty easily. I think you want in the neighborhood of 50 LMB in the 6" to 8" lengths. If you stock 2" to 3" fingerlings, few will survive. That's way too many for growing LMB in larger sizes but its the means to the end of growing dandy pan fish and your pond would "instantly" be properly equipped with predators that are up to the task if you could swing it.

By the way, I enjoyed the pic of "dinner" every bit as much as the pics of fish. I wanted to ask you also, when you cleaned the large GSF looking fish, did it have eggs inside. By the time they reach 6" the evidence of sex is plainly visible inside. Do you happen to remember the sex? If there were eggs, it is not likely an HBG this early in your ponds life, though it could be.

As to whether GSF wind up in HBG shipments by accident? No but it is possible as a matter of negligence. No parent should be used in production that isn't positively identified (by gametes). For hybrid production, this is an unbreakable rule for which there should be no tolerance. They should be produced in ponds with no water shed that are preferably filled with well water. If not well water, the water must be filtered in order to prevent contamination by other fish. When its done right, there are no "accidents" (which is just an inexcusable way of softening incompetence or negligence).

F1s are remarkably consistent and this consistency is what makes them attractive. F1 tomatoes are remarkably consistent also while their offspring ... not so much. I don't think the GSF-ish fish is an F1 and I would be willing wager 10-1 at a reasonable limit that it isn't.

Last edited by jpsdad; 11/12/20 11:55 AM.

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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Thanks JPSDAD. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of my problem when I cleaned the fish, so I didn't pay any attention to look for eggs or clues on male/female. If you have any links to sexing them, I'd appreciate it. It sounds like we're on the same path for a nice mix of good pan fish and LMB. From the same supplier, I ordered 25 3-4" LMB, F1 variety, for stocking mid-July. When I picked them up, they were only 1.5" long. See pic. My fear is that they were too small and probably became food for the BH, HBG, and GSF.

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I agree with you. Those LMB were just minnows to GSF and BH. I would definitely stock 6" to 8" fingerlings as soon as you can (ensuring the first temps above 60 degrees).

It's too early to tell but you may wind up missing the BH once the LMB are well established. You're enjoying this and that's what its all about.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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