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#500671 - 01/14/19 05:26 PM Re: Snipe!! [Re: NEDOC]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12817
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Walleye 12" long has a gape 34-36mm 1.3"-1.4". Same length saugeye would have a very similar gape. I had saugeye(SE one stocking) in my main pond for around 8 years then started introducing walleye(WE) because could not find saugeye(SE).
Saugeye definitely have promise as a pond fish. But they are only as good as just discussion if they are not available or very difficult to obtain. They are definitely not as easy as HBG to produce.


Edited by Bill Cody (01/14/19 05:40 PM)
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#500672 - 01/14/19 06:03 PM Re: Snipe!! [Re: NEDOC]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5867
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Maybe of interest....

Originally Posted By: Snipe
Bill D, I have 2 sources available for Saugeye. One is very limited in Number and only every other year, which once started every other year provides a structure that is very fitting to control large year class recruitment of crappie and an obvious class suitable for the table.
The other source is low number but available every year. I'm going to be transporting some the second week in June to a couple of locations in east central KS and I can haul about 1,000 3-4" fish.
I've got about 400 lined up now, I'd be willing to help anyone else out if needed, we could discuss via PM how far I may be willing to go.


Edited by Bill D. (01/14/19 06:03 PM)
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#500673 - 01/14/19 06:27 PM Re: Snipe!! [Re: NEDOC]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 1115
Loc: Louisiana
Snipe,

Any idea what the stocking rate for SAE per surface acre would be? My puddle is roughly 1 ac/ft. Not much surface area(60'x60') but it's got depth(11'at full pool).
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.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!

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#500675 - 01/14/19 08:21 PM Re: Snipe!! [Re: NEDOC]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12817
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Mike - What other fish are in the pond? Other fish species and their approximate density or percentages will influence supplemental stocking
You say roughly 1 ac and then surface area 60'X60'. 60x60 is 0.08 acre. I'm confused.
Okay ---- I see my error I misread 1acft as 1 ac. dah.


Edited by Bill Cody (01/15/19 12:31 PM)
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#500677 - 01/14/19 09:35 PM Re: Snipe!! [Re: NEDOC]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 184
Loc: Ohio
An acre-ft is 325851 gallons

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#500679 - 01/14/19 10:21 PM Re: Snipe!! [Re: NEDOC]
Snipe Online   content


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 387
Loc: NW Kansas
Mike, there is so many variables to consider on something like this.
They are mainly used here for controlling crappie-but will eat other species...readily. I would strongly error on the light side if it were mine. Predation on the most abundant species present will likely be the result with consideration of size.
This would be a WAG not knowing your system but 5-6 in a pond the size of yours would be as high as I would feel comfortable with not knowing for sure what your goal is.
This is somewhat uncharted area here, so I'm hesitant to say any more would be "ok".
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#500702 - 01/15/19 04:53 PM Re: Saugeye info [Re: NEDOC]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 1115
Loc: Louisiana
Hey Snipe,
The only definitive number I can give you on any species swimming in the pond are the LMB, which is 3. I bucket stocked them after the spawn from local water at 12-13". The rest is purely speculative, since I only stocked a few dozen (combined) BG, WM,and RES. BG are definitely the most populous. I wouldn't be surprised if their numbers were in the 1000's, with the vast majority being less than 3". Next would be GSF with numbers possibly being near 1000 ranging from 9" (very few) down to 1". My BH population is minimal, maybe 50 tops as they didn't fare well with their spawn. Never saw a single fry. While crappie are present, I've only caught two so far. The remainder are RES, WM and a sampling of longear.

I want this to be a panfish pond with quality, but not necessarily trophy, class fish. The bass, greenies and bullhead do a decent job of predation on the BG during warm months, but since they're warm water friendly, they're not hitting the small BG they way I want them to now that it's cooled off.

The SAE, if my thinking is correct, would benefit greatly during these colder periods and help keep the balance more in check, and give my bigger panfish better opportunity to get bigger.

I was considering only 6 or so, no more than 12, but getting the size fish I would need to stock in the fall (6-8") may be problematic. I have no idea when these fish spawn or how fast they grow in the first year, but with LMB pushing 14" in residence, predation on the SAE needs to be considered as well. The bass would be the only serious threat to the SAE, tho.

Please feel free to correct my thinking if I'm off base. I've been known to get a little OCD at times.
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.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!

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#500709 - 01/15/19 09:35 PM Re: Saugeye info [Re: NEDOC]
Snipe Online   content


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 387
Loc: NW Kansas
I've personally never tried this but I would consider trying to ship a handful of fry if you would be interested in building a holding pen/cage? Getting 6-8" fish to your location would be a logistical nightmare..
OR.. I could grow some fry to 2-3" and try and ship. You would still need a grow out cage of no larger than 1/4" mesh. Wow. This would be a heck of an experiment.
I'm still waiting on a call from my bud on the fingerlings, maybe I could try to ship a few of those.
Before we go too crazy here I want to get a better idea of the number I will-for sure-have to play with.
I think you more than likely have the forage base to handle a few, sounds like, and I'm guessing in your climate, if the temps are truly doable, they'd be 12-14" by Late November.
The farthest south population I know of that so far has been successful is near Abilene, TX.
I'll do some thinking about how we could make that work!
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#500715 - 01/16/19 04:59 AM Re: Saugeye info [Re: NEDOC]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 1115
Loc: Louisiana
Abilene is as far south as I've ever heard of them as well.

Building a grow out pen is doable. It's the water temps that would concern me at the time the fry would have to be kept in it. Even now, my surface temps are around 60*, and probably wont get much below 55* before they'll start climbing. Last year it got up to 99* before I put aeration in. That cooled the surface off, but it also warmed the bottom as well, and was running strictly at night.

I'd hate to go thru all the effort just to lose them to the heat.
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!

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#500723 - 01/16/19 08:10 AM Re: Saugeye info [Re: NEDOC]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 860
Loc: SC Nebraska
This is my WAG but I wonder if the fry would handle the high water temps and then you'd lose the fish as they got older. I'm kind of experimenting with the same issues here regarding tiger muskie, and from what I can tell I think I'll be able to get 2-3 seasons out of them and then lose them due to water temps as they get bigger. I believe their DO demand increases as they get older and the larger fish tend to seek cool water refuge with high DO. Just my thoughts.
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#500742 - 01/16/19 12:54 PM Re: Saugeye info [Re: Mike Whatley]
Snipe Online   content


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 387
Loc: NW Kansas
Originally Posted By: Mike Whatley
Abilene is as far south as I've ever heard of them as well.

Building a grow out pen is doable. It's the water temps that would concern me at the time the fry would have to be kept in it. Even now, my surface temps are around 60*, and probably wont get much below 55* before they'll start climbing. Last year it got up to 99* before I put aeration in. That cooled the surface off, but it also warmed the bottom as well, and was running strictly at night.

I'd hate to go thru all the effort just to lose them to the heat.

WOW!!! 99 degs??!!
I know we've seen the upper 80's for short periods without morts but I'm not sure they'd go very far with that kind of surface temps..
I'm not sure they'd make the first summer?? Humm...
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#500761 - 01/16/19 04:41 PM Re: Saugeye info [Re: NEDOC]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 1115
Loc: Louisiana
I had to take some serious emergency steps because I didn't have aeration installed yet. Backed my gatortail mud motor into the pond and fired it up to circulate the water. It did a fantastic job of creating a good current around the pond and lowering the surface temp back into the high 80s in no time.

I haven't had those kind of surface temps since I installed my system, but I only see a variance of about 3 degrees from top to bottom now with no thermocline. I only have to run the pump about 6 hours to get a complete turnover so I set it up to run from 2-8am when it gets really hot outside.
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!

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#501213 - 01/26/19 08:57 AM Re: Saugeye info [Re: NEDOC]
DonoBBD Offline


Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 1991
Loc: Ontario, Canada, Eh.
I would not say that walleye do not reproduce in ponds. I have seen it my self in Ontario but if there are any other fish present the walleye fry will be the first to be eaten.

Perch and Bass can clean up allot of young walleye in no time but so can chub and shiners.

I would say that their young are easy to control not that they will not reproduce.

Cheers Don.
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#501226 - 01/26/19 02:43 PM Re: Saugeye info [Re: NEDOC]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12817
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
I agree with Dono, walleye will spawn and eggs hatch in ponds that have the best conditions for walleye reproduction. This means low turbidity, low silt, low biochemical oxygen demand(BOD) water, usually coarse rocky shoreline, good wind exposure so wave action mixes fresh oxygenated water into the shoreline rock areas and relatively low numbers of egg eating crayfish, panfish, & large minnows. Then if any eggs hatch they as 3/8" feeble swimming, long, slivers have to have enough proper sized zooplankton to eat and keep from getting eaten by small fish. The the next sizes of invertebrates have to be available to feed the growing post-larvae, then fingerlings who then need small newly hatched fish fry as food.


Edited by Bill Cody (01/26/19 02:54 PM)
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