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#499712 - 12/15/18 12:49 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
jpsdad Online   content


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 251
Loc: Texas
bigpullerman,

You mentioned that you want a pond where the kids can catch a mess of eating sized panfish without much waiting for a bite. Hybrid sunfish are a pretty good bet for this because they are slow to become hook shy and grow to eating size (6 - 8 in) very quickly. They can be expensive to source in the quantities you may want them however. On the other hand, if you construct a forage pond, you could grow them and transfer them at 3 or 4 inches to the main pond.

While I wouldn't suggest trying to produce hybrids in your main pond from parental pairs, this link demonstrates how hybrids can be used in combination with LMB to have a remarkably productive fishery.






Edited by jpsdad (12/15/18 12:54 PM)

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#499722 - 12/16/18 01:55 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: jpsdad]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5361
Loc: SE Kansas
If he had an empty forage pond, throwing in a half dozen male/female BG along with a single female GSF would get him all the hybrids he would need.

Pick some really good looking brood stock.

I know this is not a modern day stocking preferred method. But if you look up some of the old 60's and 70's research papers back when farm ponds were more looked at as a food source rather than a recreation source and commercial stocking fish were not nearly as readily available it was common. The way they did it in the old days may not be the way to do it for sportfishing trophys, but I bet it still works to produce fish.

Here is an example of an old study using parentals for stocking. PDF download.
RESxGSF hybrid potential


Edited by snrub (12/16/18 02:01 PM)
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#499723 - 12/16/18 04:13 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: snrub]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5752
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: snrub
If he had an empty forage pond, throwing in a half dozen male/female BG along with a single female GSF would get him all the hybrids he would need.

Pick some really good looking brood stock.

I know this is not a modern day stocking preferred method. But if you look up some of the old 60's and 70's research papers back when farm ponds were more looked at as a food source rather than a recreation source and commercial stocking fish were not nearly as readily available it was common. The way they did it in the old days may not be the way to do it for sportfishing trophys, but I bet it still works to produce fish.

Here is an example of an old study using parentals for stocking. PDF download.
RESxGSF hybrid potential


FWIW I have one GSF in my pond with our BG and PS and it is not unusual to catch a HBG. I think the HBG fry might actually have an advantage over the pure bloods due to their aggressive nature and rapid growth.
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#499724 - 12/16/18 04:36 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: Bill D.]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5361
Loc: SE Kansas
Here is another research paper using parentals.

using BG and RES males with female GSF parentals

There is good information in that paper for anyone interested in hybrid sunfish even if you do not intend to do the stocking by parentals.

The fish were raised in what they call infertile ponds. With a feeding program I think it would work even better.


Edited by snrub (12/16/18 04:58 PM)
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#499742 - 12/17/18 10:54 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 100
Loc: central Arkansas
Some good Ideas on forage ponds. I don't think with the way my ground is that I would be able to make one but I am doing some thinking about it. I would have a lot of trees to deal with and have to have a good source of water. I might could do something upstream of the my pond but might have to pump into it from the main pond to keep enough water in it. I had though about a sediment pond about my pond, but the tree issue is still there. I would have to cut out a lot of trees and dig out the roots. But you fellers have given me plenty to think about. Keep those ideas coming. Just out of curiosity, could a person raise BG/HBG/GSF in 100 gal water tanks?
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1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
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#499778 - 12/19/18 04:17 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13697
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Yeah, you can raise them in tanks. But, the problem could turn into nutrient over load from their waste. You would have to change the water or partially change pretty often.
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#499783 - 12/19/18 11:38 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
DannyMac Offline


Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 80
Loc: Bexar county Texas
As my fish supplier does: various tanks for holding the fish, each tank plumbed to a central manifold (connecting all the tanks) which feeds a pump and sand filter which then feeds another manifold which feeds the individual returns to each tank. Quite a few valves for controlling flows through each tank and for isolating and draining tanks. He has an electric aerator for each tank, so there's also a lot of wiring in conduits.
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#499789 - 12/19/18 07:06 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: Dave Davidson1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5361
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Yeah, you can raise them in tanks. But, the problem could turn into nutrient over load from their waste. You would have to change the water or partially change pretty often.


I have pondered the idea of setting a 100 gallon tote next to the pond, then run a small koi pond pump to pump water to the tank. Have an overflow gravity flow back to the pond. Could even do a bottom draw but make sure it didn't siphon.

If the fish ultimately will live in that pond they would already be conditioned to the pond water. With a reasonable flow through amount, shouldn't even need aeration. The pond water should already be aerated.

Clean bottom waste with water capable shop vac.

I have not done this. Just speculation.


Edited by snrub (12/19/18 07:10 PM)
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#499791 - 12/19/18 07:54 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12688
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Member Bruce Condello built a flow through raceway for growing fish that was fed by pondwater. Lusk briefly showed the system on one of his podcasts where they talked about growing big bluegill. On it they said they were going to describe it but did not do much about details for it. An article about this topic should be placed in a future Pond Boss Magazine. One important concern to be dealt with is installing a simple flushing or removal method for the fish waste. Member Cecil Baird has described his indoor fish growing tanks that would could easily be adapted for a flow through system adjacent to a pond. I will look for the thread where this system was described.

Cecil Baird1 Small Scale DIY RAS 2.0 Intro Part 1
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437132

Possible repeat of above link:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437166#Post437166

Part 2 The Tank
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437125

Part 3 Center Drain
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437208

Part 4 Siphon, Pump, & Clarifier
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=439135

Cecil's Outdoor fish Tank Note the bottom drain system
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=25891&Number=331510#Post331510

Cecil has redesigned his filtration system. I will see if I can find info about it? Although filtration should not be needed for a flow through bottom drain tank.



Out dated filter links:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=27920&Number=356673#Post356673

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=284490



Edited by Bill Cody (12/19/18 08:46 PM)
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#499794 - 12/19/18 09:08 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: anthropic]
catmandoo Offline
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Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5691
Loc: Hampshire Co., WV
Originally Posted By: anthropic
Originally Posted By: bigpullerman
Lots of reading and reflecting on my pond. One thing that I have noticed is I don't have any plants growing in my pond. I never have as far as I can remember. I would have grass growing around the edges but that's pretty much it. I have lots of trees growing all around it and I have started removing them. Lots of willows on the levee that will be a booger to cut and remove. My water level will fluctuate a good 5 ft every summer when we get dry. Would that be the reason for no plants? Most of my runoff comes from farm land so I am pretty sure I get some fertilizer along with some chemicals but that don't seem to bother the area that it runs down to get to the pond. I was just curious so I thought I would ask here.


You might consider cutting some of the willows and sinking them in the pond to make cover for your YOY fish, especially near spawning areas. Without plants, the little guys don't have enough cover.

You might also think about buying some cheap WalMart type kiddie pools, filling them with appropriate size pea gravel, and attaching them to the bottom to help . Do it at various depths so the BG can spawn regardless of water level.

I'm just now getting water plants & adding habitat, it is a constant battle!


No offense meant to any posts above.

I may be wrong, but I have experienced cut willows taking over wet or very damp areas. I would not suggest putting fresh-cut willow into a shallow area of pond, or any regularly wet areas.

Most willows will grow roots and establish themselves if cuttings or attached branches are in contact with wet areas.

You can help your hatchery success and enjoy a colorful and good tasting garden in your pond. Many of us have had very good success with floating islands growing a variety of non-invasive plants. The plants take up nutrients. Their roots grow deeply into the water and provide good habitat for fry. Many flowers and vegetables, including edibles like lettuce, spinach, cucumbers, radishes etc., will grow very well on a floating island.

I would definitely get the willows off the levee. Any trees on the levee will weaken it. The can cause a lever failure. Willows are especially harmful because their root systems strongly seek water and can grow very large and disruptive.


Edited by catmandoo (12/19/18 09:15 PM)
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#499808 - 12/20/18 12:14 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1637
Loc: East Texas, USA
No offense taken, catmandoo. I was trying to help, but didn't realize willow trees would respond differently than other trees. Thanks for educating me!


Edited by anthropic (12/20/18 03:04 AM)
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8 acre E Texas, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12 inch N LMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18

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#499813 - 12/20/18 08:43 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: Bill Cody]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5361
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Member Bruce Condello built a flow through raceway for growing fish that was fed by pondwater. Lusk briefly showed the system on one of his podcasts where they talked about growing big bluegill. On it they said they were going to describe it but did not do much about details for it. An article about this topic should be placed in a future Pond Boss Magazine. One important concern to be dealt with is installing a simple flushing or removal method for the fish waste. Member Cecil Baird has described his indoor fish growing tanks that would could easily be adapted for a flow through system adjacent to a pond. I will look for the thread where this system was described.

Cecil Baird1 Small Scale DIY RAS 2.0 Intro Part 1
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437132

Possible repeat of above link:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437166#Post437166

Part 2 The Tank
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437125

Part 3 Center Drain
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437208

Part 4 Siphon, Pump, & Clarifier
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=439135

Cecil's Outdoor fish Tank Note the bottom drain system
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=25891&Number=331510#Post331510

Cecil has redesigned his filtration system. I will see if I can find info about it? Although filtration should not be needed for a flow through bottom drain tank.



Out dated filter links:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=27920&Number=356673#Post356673

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=284490



Very interesting stuff Bill. Got my mind to working now. If only my body and energy level can follow through with what my mind comes up with! grin


Edited by snrub (12/20/18 08:44 AM)
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#499819 - 12/20/18 11:01 AM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 100
Loc: central Arkansas
Lots of good info there. I have a 100 gal water tank I got back in the summer. We have lots of small trees,flower beds and a garden to keep watered. The faucet always leaks where the hose hooks to it. I had been using a barrel but stepped up to a cow tank to catch that water. We use all of it for watering but I started keeping my leftover minners in the bucket in there for a few days over the weekends. We have mosquitoes so it has plenty of food for small fish. The water gets changed out quite often too.
I plan on totally removing all the willows. It will take some time to get it all done but that is the plan. I won't be using any for brushpiles. I have figured out a place for the dense brush area. Probably a 20' X 30' area. I plan on throwing all my cedar limbs along with some oak, hickory, gum and whatever else I trim or cut down except willows. This area is closest to my house so I chose this spot cause of the idea I have about making a bug killer to hang over this spot to feed the fish some nice tasty bugs. I could run some extension cords to see if it will work and if it does than I would run a line down there. If I do that then that leads to the aeration idea I have been kicking around.
Another idea I have been thinking about lately is spillway pipe with the boards that I can pull out to drop the level a few feet. I have got a place in mind next to my current spillway. This will cost some $$$$ to do and I will have to rent or borrow a small trackhoe to do it. So I have got to start picking up cans so I can fund this project.
Still thinking about the sediment/forage pond. This would be in the entrance to the main pond. But this project would be farther down the road.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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#499980 - 12/26/18 09:37 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: bigpullerman]
Augie Offline


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 32
Loc: Boone County Missouri
BPM, I admire your patience and perseverance.

I've recently finished up de-mucking and deepening a .35ac pond.

The comment you made a couple posts after the picture of your little Ford about how you just gotta keep making laps is dead nuts.

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#500001 - 12/27/18 12:20 PM Re: My pond full of outcast [Re: Augie]
bigpullerman Offline


Registered: 12/01/15
Posts: 100
Loc: central Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Augie
BPM, I admire your patience and perseverance.

I've recently finished up de-mucking and deepening a .35ac pond.

The comment you made a couple posts after the picture of your little Ford about how you just gotta keep making laps is dead nuts.


Thanks Augie There is no tellen how many hours I have spent digging out in my pond. My son, son in law and grandsons took a walkabout on Christmas afternoon. I was telling them my plans and ideas I had and they commented on how much larger the pond was now. When you don't have big equipment then you have to have patience, perseverance and dedication.
_________________________
Nothing like seeing your bobber bobbing.
1 acre pond with LMB BG GSF BH CC and whatever else I can find
Not after trophies I just like catching and eating fish
Buddy R Hill


I Subscribe

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