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#486078 - 02/12/18 09:10 AM Electric Aeration Question
FairviewFarmer Offline


Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Maryland
Brand new to this forum and maybe in a little different situation. I have a farm pond that we use to water around 50 head of beef cattle. I dredged the pond about 15 years ago and had big plans, but like everything else those plans pretty much ended once we dredged it out. Have not done much with it since.
It has several small springs feeding it as well as the surrounding hill sides and run off. Let me start by saying this pond is in pretty rough shape, the cattle have had direct access to it forever, so you can imagine...
I am in the process of fencing it now and I am going to install a gravity fed waterer on the lower side of it. I want to clean this thing up. Maybe in the future stock it, but for now I need to just clean it up and get the water quality up. I have recently been speaking to OutDoor water solutions and Koenders, I thought I wanted a windmill... But after hours on this site I am really questioning that thought...
I had no idea I could run air for the 700 feet needed to reach my pond, again thank you Pond Boss Forum! So with all that being said, I am looking at the Koenders HD450 electric unit and the Aermaster Pro 3 from Outdoor Water solutions... Can anyone give me any thoughts or direction? Should I go electric? Should I go wind? Are these units worth the money?
Here is a little info on my pond.
1). 100' by 190', tear drop shape.
2). At its deepest point around 11 to 12 feet, tapered up from there.
3) Lots of Muck and brownish nasty water.
4) Used for livestock water.
Any help or words of wisdom would be wonderful!!
Thanks
Jason.

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#486083 - 02/12/18 11:54 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6801
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Vertex makes a great Aeration system, AirMax does also, though both use different diffuser set ups that are very effective....plus service after the sale.

Be sure to use at least 1" poly for the long run and 1.5" would be even better to reduce friction and keep your compressor pressures low for longer compressor life and loser electric costs.

Several of us here on the forum are "in the business" (me included) and can help you desing and decide the best way to go for your pond
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www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#486120 - 02/14/18 10:50 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
FairviewFarmer Offline


Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Maryland
Rainman,
Thanks for the input, I just received a quote for an airmax system. The one from Koenders is Allot less expensive! 2099.00 vs 1290.00! I cannot find any info on the Koenders system though, even when searching this forum. Does anyone out there use them?? I think Koenders is giving me one heck of a deal! Salesman is giving me 25% off they whole system due to some kind of sale.... Just kinda like to research it a little before I pull the trigger, is the airmax that much better???

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#486126 - 02/14/18 12:18 PM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12185
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
FairviewFarmer - I would do some more homework and shop around a little more. If cost is a big factor consider buying high quality parts separately and assemble them yourself. Buying a preassembled kit does have numerous benefits especially considering the time factor involved.

Separate parts such as pump then build your own manifold w/ gauge and pressure relief and air filter for the intake port. Proper high CFM compressor to match the water body is very important IMO. Note the Koenders system works down to 40ft but why buy a higher pressure compressor that sacrifices CFM when air volume is most important if your pond is not real deep?? For pressure (PSI) you need 1/2 your maximum depth + maybe 1-3 psi. Example 10ft deep / 2 = 5psi + 2psi = 7psi. Generally with lower PSI the pump can produce more CFM. CFM is very important in aeration systems - ability to make bubbles. Use weighted hose or unweighted DYI black poly tubing or garden hose that you weight yourself. Buy the best diffuser from your research somewhere online.

Koenders vs Airmax. My initial guess is one is a diaphragm pump and the other is a different style pump. I am not familiar with Amax but I am with with Koenders electric system. Main thing to research and learn is the amount of air produced by the pump - cfm cubic ft per minute. The more air produced the more bubbles the diffuser can make. Air volume is very important when choosing a diffuser. Next important item is the diffuser. Stone type diffusers plug and clog due to calcium (alkalinity & hardnesss) buildup more easily and are harder to clean (muratic acid needed) than membrane diffusers (soap&water scrubbing). I quit using stone diffusers years ago - too much trouble for the benefit produced. Size of diffuser is important. The more surface area a diffuser has the larger the initial boil produced & the more water moved at the surface. Each diffuser has an optimum operating needed air volume. Diffusers should match the air volume of the pump. Excess air means you could operate extra diffusers and then move more water. In this case of more diffusers, the system could be operated less each day to get the same "job" done in less time. Fewer hours on the compressor means longer lasting life span of the compressor.


Edited by Bill Cody (02/14/18 02:00 PM)
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#486183 - 02/16/18 02:35 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6801
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Bill, AirMax uses Diaphragm pumps for shallow water and small Koi ponds, and double rocking piston Gast 1/3hp pumps for the pond/lake series systems
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#486187 - 02/16/18 07:23 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
FWIW I have the Airmax PS20 (1/3 HP RPP as Rainman stated). The diffusers are PTFE coated tubes in an H configuration. I installed it the spring of 2014 and have had no problems. The only thing I would do different is upgrade to 5/8 tubing to reduce system operating pressure a little. The standard package came with 3/8.


Edited by Bill D. (02/16/18 07:24 AM)
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#486196 - 02/16/18 08:48 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
FairviewFarmer Offline


Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Maryland
Thanks for the info!

I am still bouncing back and fourth, its going to cost me a fair amount of money and I do not want to buy a lemon. But on the same token I don't think I need the cadillac of systems either. Looking for a cost effective system that does what I need to do. I toyed with the idea of buying it piece meal, but I honestly do not want to take on another project at the moment.
This whole process has kind of surprised me, there really aren't allot of reviews that I can find on this stuff, I have been looking for dang near two weeks and have not found very much information, but I have learned a little.

Bill D.
I have been told to run a 1" feeder line via PVC from my pump to my pond (approx 500'). 3 of the companies I have been dealing with told me that, all independently and I didn't ask, so I am assuming that is right! LOL! At this point though I would want to say for sure.
I am looking at an airmax PS20 also, that is one of the brands I have received quotes on, all though I think the sales lady I am dealing with is pulling my leg, or trying to make a little extra on me. She is claiming I need to run two direct burial air lines from my pump to my pond... No one else has ever told me that, At 500' that is driving my price up, I just left her talk and when I got the quote deleted the extra line....

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#486197 - 02/16/18 09:04 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 752
Loc: in the mountains
I recently made a post on this. If you are going to be running air 500', make sure you put it on grade otherwise you will be dealing with condensation.
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#486198 - 02/16/18 09:15 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
FairviewFarmer Offline


Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Maryland
wbuffetjr

I saw it, and adjusted my airline accordingly! LOL! Thank you for the post!

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#486199 - 02/16/18 09:17 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: FairviewFarmer
...
....
I am looking at an airmax PS20 also, that is one of the brands I have received quotes on, all though I think the sales lady I am dealing with is pulling my leg, or trying to make a little extra on me. She is claiming I need to run two direct burial air lines from my pump to my pond... No one else has ever told me that, At 500' that is driving my price up, I just left her talk and when I got the quote deleted the extra line....


I suspect she is telling you that because the PS20 has the manifold right at the pump. It consists of two valves. One line to each of the two diffusers. I see no reason why you couldn't use a Y and bring the two flows together for the 500 foot run and then split them again using another manifold at the pond edge.
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#486201 - 02/16/18 09:23 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
FairviewFarmer Offline


Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Maryland
Bill D.

I'm with you on the splitter, it would save me a pretty good chunk of change and I don't understand why that wouldn't work doing it that way.

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#486222 - 02/16/18 04:44 PM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6801
Loc: St Louis, MO area
The Airmax can be ordered without the manifold on the pump, when used with a remote manifold.....
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www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#486225 - 02/16/18 07:45 PM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
The one mod I made to my PS20 was to replace the tiny and expensive to maintain Airmax air inlet filter assembly with the Bill Cody designed filter assembly. Increased time between required cartridge replacements a ton and reduced cost of replacement cartridges by 75%!


Edited by Bill D. (02/16/18 08:10 PM)
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#486234 - 02/17/18 06:16 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 3879
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Has anyone adapted a automobile air filter assembly as an air intake filter? Would it handle the volume?

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#486236 - 02/17/18 07:53 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: RAH]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4434
Loc: SE Kansas
Should be just a matter of two plates with a filter in between and some flexible plumbing with heat resistant hose to the compressor.

Location of intake can make a lot of difference in how often it needs serviced. Don't mount it rigid to the compressor to avoid the vibration.

We did a car air cleaner on a large 3 cylinder high pressure compressor. Located it remotely to keep intake away from moisture cooling.

Here is a search that came up with some ideas.
filter ideas


Edited by snrub (02/17/18 07:56 AM)
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#486237 - 02/17/18 08:20 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
FF,

If you are planning on running an air line a long distance in ground that can freeze, I suggest you read this thread on condensation problems and how to avoid them.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=486123#Post486123
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You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#486238 - 02/17/18 08:42 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: snrub]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 3879
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
From the link, it looks like some compressor filters are very similar to auto filters. I am thinking that mounting them on the outside of an enclosure might work?

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#486258 - 02/18/18 08:15 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
FairviewFarmer Offline


Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Maryland
Thank You guys for all the info, I have adjusted my air line idea accordingly to take into account the condensation. Where I have it now will have pretty good fall all the way to the pond. My search is continuing on the aeration system itself but going to need to make a move here shortly, I expect the weather to be breaking in my area in the next month and want to be ready to go when it does. Can not let this project go another year.
Thanks Again Everyone!

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#486265 - 02/18/18 10:59 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 752
Loc: in the mountains
You could put a gast 0740 with a 1/3 HP motor of your choice and have a heck of a pump for that.
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#486277 - 02/18/18 04:47 PM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
FairviewFarmer Offline


Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Maryland
Wbuffetjr
Is that a model number? Where can I buy That? EBay. Amazon? Guess I'd have to piecemeal it together if I did something like that.. But it's an idea...

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#486282 - 02/18/18 06:56 PM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
wbuffetjr Offline


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 752
Loc: in the mountains
It is a model number of a pump. I think you can order them several places. It is a detached rotary vane pump that you combine with a motor of your choosing. Pretty simple to do. A while back I did lots and lots of looking at pumps and the 0740 was the best I could find for a small pump. I connected mine to a Baldor EL 3501 motor.
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Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
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#486341 - 02/20/18 09:47 AM Re: Electric Aeration Question [Re: FairviewFarmer]
FairviewFarmer Offline


Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Maryland
Well pulled the trigger on an AirPro 1/2 Hp system with 2 double diffuser stations.. Hope I made the right choice, allot to choose from but this was by far the best priced system I found and they really gave me allot of bang for my buck!!! Time will tell from here on out. Updates to follow!
Thanks to everyone who chimed in and gave some insight!

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