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#480489 - 09/27/17 11:19 PM Re: CC Recruits! [Re: Bill D.]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4221
Loc: SE Kansas
Bill I caught a couple 6" and one 12" CC today. I have multiple year classes of CC from spawn.
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#480620 - 10/02/17 05:06 PM Re: CC Recruits! [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5310
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks for the info Snrub. Seems whether CC recruit in small ponds with predators is one of those "It Depends" and not an absolute that it won't happen.
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#480621 - 10/02/17 05:19 PM Re: CC Recruits! [Re: Bill D.]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1558
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Yes, I think it very much "depends".
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#480623 - 10/02/17 05:50 PM Re: CC Recruits! [Re: Bill D.]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4221
Loc: SE Kansas
I'm kind of light on predators, or at least it seems that way. I know I have LMB out there because others have caught 5# sizes, but I fish mostly for BG and never catch any small LMB.

I'm not much of an angler, but I would think I would catch some smaller LMB fishing for BG. At least I used to when the pond was only a year or two old.
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#481209 - 10/17/17 07:47 PM Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5310
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Our walleye are now reaching that 19 to 20 inch size when they start to add girth and put on the weight more than the length and I want to help them along if need be.




This summer we had two rain events that resulted in losing 100s if not 1000s of small BG and PS due to overflow. Should I be considering adding some GSH or other forage now as additional winter forage for the WE as well as the SMB, LMB, etc? How big a GSH can a 19 inch WE eat? How big a BG can it eat? I know they will eat a lot less during the winter but I don't want them to lose weight if possible. Thanks in advance for any thoughts!


Edited by Bill D. (10/17/17 08:04 PM)
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#481247 - 10/18/17 10:29 AM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18953
Loc: Miss.
Every pond has a capacity to hold/grow fish. That amount can be augmented often by feeding or fertilization (if needed). But whatever the capacity amount, the fish will fill it with their kind if possible. The time period post initial fish stocking with small fish for a pond to reach capacity depends on several factors (water temp , location , growing season length and food available among others) but usually ranges from 18 mths and 2 years. In many cases when adult fish are present there is no more room for more fish (at capacity). When an event occurs (partial winter kill or DO event, failed spawn , over harvest, etc.) there will be more room for a short time before the remaining fish fill the space. These events can result in unbalanced fish populations. To make an informed choice one needs to have a good feel of what is left and how that/those fish fit into the plan. For example if conditions are right BG can often fill the void quickly. If those conditions do not exist (cold water) then the void will be filled by the next available fish to spawn or some combination. Keep in mind that with very small fish (yoy) natural mortalities are very high. In a several acre pond with an established BG population the loss of 10,000 small yoy BG is not a big factor. If the BG and other fish are fed it becomes even less of an issue.

Depending on goals and current status the existing BG may have already replaced the loss. If you are concerned then try to determine your current status first then decided whether to add fish. If it is just a food issue for one winter than adult FH can help the small WE.


Edited by ewest (10/18/17 10:31 AM)
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#481270 - 10/18/17 08:18 PM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5310
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks for the input Eric! Here is some more info.

The two high water events this summer came after BG first spawn and after BG second spawn. My concern about not having enough winter forage comes from observation that I don't see the large schools of small BG around the pond now that I have seen in years past at this time of year.

My pond is small so I can add forage for winter without a huge expense. I asked about mouth gap of a 20 inch WE as I want to add appropriate size forage if I do add some. I considered just dropping several pounds of FHM but was concerned they are really too small for that size WE. There are also SMB and LMB in the 14 to 16 inch size to consider.

My thought was GSH (3 to 5 inch) might be a more appropriate size forage than FHM to add if I decide to add. Would GSH be a better "fit" mouth gap wise or would FHM be better? How big a GSH can a 20 inch WE eat? Can they handle 4 inch BG?
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#481272 - 10/18/17 08:48 PM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 11988
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
A 20" walleye can eat a 6"-7" GSH although the 4"-5" is more appropriate for walleye. Walleye can eat a decent amount of small fish during winter; probably 4-6 for each WE per week. I've caught 19" winter WE with two YP 3" in their gut. BG - expect those WE 19"+ to eat mostly 3"-4" BG.
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#481325 - 10/19/17 01:44 PM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18953
Loc: Miss.
Bill are you just trying to get to next spring or are you wanting to establish a GS population? I would wait to add the GS as long as water temps allow this fall. The idea is to add them once the LMB slow down due to temps. This will allow the WE to eat more. Same if you try to add small BG.As Bill noted WE & YP will eat small GS and BG over winter. I would shoot for 4 inch GS and 3 inch BG. I have concerns on trying to establish GS long term with many hatchery raised GS. They are great for forage.
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#481451 - 10/22/17 04:58 AM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
Giovanni Carlo Offline


Registered: 08/12/17
Posts: 8
Loc: Zamboanga del sur
This is how a (fresh water clams) adult size that you need to know

Hi, guys, I have taken a video of Fresh water clam adult size, have a look at https://youtu.be/ZLyR39U8VEA they are good additional live filter media for your biological filtration system
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#481453 - 10/22/17 07:05 AM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: ewest]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5310
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: ewest
Bill are you just trying to get to next spring or are you wanting to establish a GS population? I would wait to add the GS as long as water temps allow this fall. The idea is to add them once the LMB slow down due to temps. This will allow the WE to eat more. Same if you try to add small BG.As Bill noted WE & YP will eat small GS and BG over winter. I would shoot for 4 inch GS and 3 inch BG. I have concerns on trying to establish GS long term with many hatchery raised GS. They are great for forage.


Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
A 20" walleye can eat a 6"-7" GSH although the 4"-5" is more appropriate for walleye. Walleye can eat a decent amount of small fish during winter; probably 4-6 for each WE per week. I've caught 19" winter WE with two YP 3" in their gut. BG - expect those WE 19"+ to eat mostly 3"-4" BG.


Thanks for the inputs guys! The thought is to just provide additional winter forage although I may add more in the spring if it looks like I need it while I wait for the BG and PS to spawn.

I checked with the hatchery and they can provide both GSH (3 to 5 inch) and FHM in mid November once the water cools more. The pond is down quite a bit from being full most of the summer, roughly now about .4 to .5 acre. I'm thinking I will add 10lbs of both FHM and GSH. I figure the FHM should be good for the YP (10 to 12 inch) and smaller bass.
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#482293 - 11/06/17 08:29 PM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5310
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Update .....Water temp was mid 40s at 26 inch depth so we went ahead and stocked the FHM and GSH. While we acclimated and sorted, I hooked a GSH up under a cork for my bride and she quickly caught a nice little 13 to 14 inch smallie.

After releasing the forage, I noted the YP and SMB showed up to hammer the FHM which stayed in "balls" around the shore. Only saw a couple LMB but I'm sure they also joined the feast. The GSH headed immediately for deeper open water and I haven't seen them since.


Edited by Bill D. (11/06/17 08:41 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#482640 - 11/13/17 08:25 PM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5310
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Well a couple days after stocking the forage a Kingfisher showed up and has been spending everyday taking advantage of the newbies. I figure he has been taking 3 or 4 a day. Not a lot but still.....

This morning we had a skin of ice over the pond. Kingfisher showed up. As I watched he made a dive and kind of bounced off the ice. I laughed my butt off! ....He left shortly after. Ice was gone this evening so I expect he will be back tomorrow. frown
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#482644 - 11/13/17 08:56 PM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4221
Loc: SE Kansas
That is funny! laugh

You would have thought the bird would have known about ice. I guess he does now.
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#482655 - 11/14/17 08:00 AM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5310
Loc: Boone County Illinois
It was a weird bounce. Kind of like he saw the ice at the last second and tried to throw on the brakes. Ice cover is back again this morning but I'm sure it won't last.
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#482667 - 11/14/17 11:20 AM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4221
Loc: SE Kansas
Keep it up there. We are still trying to get out the last fourth of our soybean crop. Weather just will not cooperate. Cloudy almost every day and mist every second or third day. Definitely not combining weather. Kind of forgot what the sun looks like it has been so long since we have seen it. Dreary fall pre-winter weather.

Bluegill have been biting good though in the cold water. wink


Edited by snrub (11/14/17 11:36 AM)
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#482684 - 11/14/17 06:15 PM Re: Walleye mouthgap. Add winter forage? [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5310
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Hope your beans are doing better than the ones in the fields around here did. We went a couple months with no rain. I saw some on a truck not much bigger than BBs.

Send us your rain! Our pond is a couple feet low still.
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