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#483745 - 12/05/17 08:40 AM Re: On Mutt Pond [Re: Bill D.]
djstauder Offline
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Junior Member

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1009
Loc: Mississippi
Bill, that picture is hilarious... probably not if it was mine though! The kingfishers I see must go somewhere else to poop.
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#483759 - 12/05/17 12:55 PM Re: Kingfisher! [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Gives us just one more reason to hope for rain! smile


Edited by Bill D. (12/05/17 04:26 PM)
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#484705 - 12/29/17 08:27 PM Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
One of the things folks are concerned about when aerating during the winter is super chilling the water. I only aerate during the winter when we have snow cover or thick opaque ice and then I still try to do it only on "warm" days. In the spirit of Mutt Pond, I decided I would try something a little different this year in an effort to mitigate the potential for super chilling the water. Just thought I would share the experience in case others can benefit.

Our winter diffuser is in 3 to 4 feet of water now as the pond is roughly 3 feet below full pool. It is located such that it's in the path where water from the well enters the pond. My idea is to add the "warm" (50 F 35 gpm) well water while running the diffuser. The goal is to minimize the drop in temperature of the pond, in the absence of the insulating ice layer, while the pond surface water is exposed to the frigid air during aeration. We had a one day heat wave today (got to 14) so I gave it a try before the temps drop back to below zero. Although I did not measure water temps, I can report that the hole opened by the diffuser was significantly larger than in the past and, as the water rose from the well input, it came out on top of the ice and cleared a much larger area of snow.

My concern is that I'm adding essentially zero DO water from the well which seems counterproductive to the goal of winter aeration but hopefully as the water enters over a 4 cfm diffuser that is insignificant.


Edited by Bill D. (12/29/17 08:44 PM)
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#484707 - 12/30/17 07:59 AM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4432
Loc: SE Kansas
Is there a way, perhaps with a venturi in line, you could introduce air into the well water flow into the pond?

A small air tube introducing air bubbles into the water flow at the point of the venturi. The venturi drawing air into the water line much like a small engine carburetor draws gasoline into the air flow at the point of the venturi at the carburetor???

Or, lacking a venturi mechanism, installing a "T" in the water line after the pump and introducing air with another aeration pump or diverting some air from your existing air pump.


Edited by snrub (12/30/17 08:02 AM)
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#484708 - 12/30/17 08:39 AM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2138
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I agree with snrub when it comes to adding a venturi air system into your water line. A 3 or 4" long peace of pipe with a qtr inch ID can be inserted into the water line at a 90 degree angle will add air to the water. Adjust the small pipe until you feel a suction with your finger tip. I have mine set up about 10 feet from the end of the water line. I can see the difference in the water stream when comparing with or without the small pipe. I also have some 12" rocks that the water hits and causes water to splash into the pond. Bill, I am sure (based on my reading your post for the last 3 yrs or so) you can do this smile
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#484730 - 12/30/17 08:15 PM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I like the venturi idea guys! Problem would be incorporating it into the existing setup. Not saying it can't be done but would not be a quick/easy project. The line from the well is buried 42 inches deep (below the frost line) and enters the pond under water; currently about 3 feet down. We are near low pool so the water will rise 3 or 4 feet more at full pool. As John suggested, another option would be to inject air before the line leaves the basement but the line pressure is 70 psig at that point so I would need an oil free compressor capable of higher pressure.

The question remains...is what I'm doing now by passing the well flow thru the diffuser "good enough" or is it causing a problem with low DO? Another question is, and probably more relevant, am I really gaining anything at all as far as mitigating super chilling by using the well water to "warm" the pond water locally during aeration? Thoughts?


Edited by Bill D. (12/30/17 08:21 PM)
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#484738 - 12/31/17 07:23 AM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2138
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Gallons per inch verses GPM. It would take a lot of water to effect water temps, I would think. More likely to effect DO first, Don't u think?
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Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

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#484762 - 12/31/17 07:10 PM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks for the input Tracy!

I think you're probably right. In 6 hours I add 12000+ gallons of well water which is a tiny percentage of the pond capacity. It probably has insignificant impact on either temp or DO. The one thing it does do for sure is raises the water level just enough (benefit of a small pond) to get water out on top of the ice more and clear a larger area of snow than that provided by aeration alone. I don't aerate that often during the winter but I'll go ahead and use the well when I do to see if there are any bad effects.
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#484806 - 01/01/18 11:03 PM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
DrWizz Offline


Registered: 06/26/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Eastern Iowa
I have read several times on the forum that well water has no dissolved oxygen in it. I had the opportunity to visit Gavin's Point national fish hatchery in South Dakota last summer and noticed something that made me wonder if some well water may have significant amounts of DO. They had a run that was about three feet wide and 50 feet long with Rainbow trout in it. At one end there was a pipe pumping water into the run at high volume. It was sub surface and no turbulence on the surface or airation was going on. I asked the fisheries biologist where the water was coming from and he said it was well water and had not been processed or airated.

If you Google DO in well water, there are several publications discussing the issue, and it sounds like there can be significant DO in well water depending on the well.

Just wondering if a person could measure the DO in the well water to see if it needed airation prior to being pumped into a pond?

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#484808 - 01/01/18 11:05 PM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: DrWizz]
Bocomo Offline


Registered: 05/06/12
Posts: 1092
Loc: Boone County, MO (pond)
Originally Posted By: DrWizz

Just wondering if a person could measure the DO in the well water to see if it needed airation prior to being pumped into a pond?


You definitely can. You need a portable DO meter, though.
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#484994 - 01/05/18 09:28 PM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: DrWizz]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: DrWizz
I have read several times on the forum that well water has no dissolved oxygen in it. I had the opportunity to visit Gavin's Point national fish hatchery in South Dakota last summer and noticed something that made me wonder if some well water may have significant amounts of DO. They had a run that was about three feet wide and 50 feet long with Rainbow trout in it. At one end there was a pipe pumping water into the run at high volume. It was sub surface and no turbulence on the surface or airation was going on. I asked the fisheries biologist where the water was coming from and he said it was well water and had not been processed or airated.

If you Google DO in well water, there are several publications discussing the issue, and it sounds like there can be significant DO in well water depending on the well.

Just wondering if a person could measure the DO in the well water to see if it needed airation prior to being pumped into a pond?


Thanks for the input Doc. Very interesting reading on Google.

Does anybody know of a single use DO test kit? Spending a few hundred dollars on a DO meter is not an option for what would be a one time use to check my well.
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#485006 - 01/06/18 09:51 AM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I did a little Googling and found that there are DO test kits available at a reasonable price. Anybody used one or have a recommendation?
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#485009 - 01/06/18 11:18 AM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12180
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
There are chemical test kits that are accurate to measure dissolved oxygen depending on how well you collect the sample. The way you collect the sample can diffuse more oxygen into the sample. Here are two good quality DO test kits.

https://pentairaes.com/lamotte-dissolved-oxygen-test-kit.html?msclkid=04b917a4cd621582951e4df43574b54c&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=(ROI)%20Pentair%20AES%20-%20Shopping%20-%20Desktop&utm_term=4584826048954002&utm_content=Water%20Quality%20Testing

http://www.lamotte.com/en/aquarium-fish-farming/individual-test-kits/5860-01.html


http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/products.php?mi=33281&itemnum=78052&redir=Y

There may be good simple chemical test kits available at good aquarium supply stores. Research testing kits before purchasing them, as some are known to produce flawed results when used in conjunction with other chemicals and water treatments.

I learned and used the standard chemical method in college and later kits that were similar to the chemical method for measuring DO. The name for the chemical method for measuring DO is called the Winkler Method. The Winkler method is/was used as a standard test to check the accuracy of a DO meter.
Full description of the Winkler method.
https://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/research_methods/environ_sampling/oxygen.html


Edited by Bill Cody (01/06/18 11:24 AM)
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#485091 - 01/09/18 06:59 PM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5442
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks for the info Bill. Sounds like collection and handling of the sample are key to an accurate result. I think I will order a kit and give it a try next summer. I'll report back the results.
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#485093 - 01/09/18 07:32 PM Re: Winter aeration and well water [Re: Bill D.]
Bill Cody Offline
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Field Correspondent

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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12180
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
When you bubble water into a bottle it diffuses extra oxygen into the sample. I am not sure how much DO in ppm is added to the water when water is bubbled into the collection jar. Ideally the water is supposed to be collected with a device (Kemmerer or Van Dorn sampler) that underwater it entraps water & a 'messenger' on the rope closes the container. Sampler is then raised to the surface and water is let out the bottom through a tube into the measuring or testing container. Water is filled into the testing container from the bottom to the top and overflowed. The process minimizes water contact with air.

If the sampling bottle is held side wise and water is gently drained into the bottle without bubbling, this should provide decent results.


Edited by Bill Cody (01/09/18 07:36 PM)
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