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#496936 - 09/28/18 07:13 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 847
Loc: in the mountains
Thanks guys!

Tracy - I should have included some of the Summer data to compare. Here is a couple readings from the Summer. Surface water temps were the highest I've personally ever seen up there. Including recent data as well for easier comparison.



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#496937 - 09/28/18 07:24 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2454
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Big difference in DO now verses then. Any chance the meter was not calibrated at the time of the higher DO readings or maybe it needs to be cleaned to get the most recent readings? It may not be comparing apples to apples when looking at my E Texas pond but the only experience I have with DO reading are my personal surveys. I know when my water temps are high the DO is lower than when my water temps are cooler. My winter and early spring readings will show DO in the 9+ range during the winter when water temps are say 55 to 65. Any way it might be the DO meter? Does not make much since to me, that the higher DO was in higher water temps.


Edited by TGW1 (09/28/18 07:35 AM)
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#496958 - 09/28/18 03:25 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 847
Loc: in the mountains
Tracy
I don't know. It is a YSI optical DO meter. I haven't ever calibrated it or anything. Looking at the pattern from last year to this year makes me think it's something with the water. The surface DO was higher last Summer than it was last Sept and then it does the same again this year. IMO, that doesn't strike me as calibration.

When I took the last readings the water is still a really emerald green color. It doesn't appear to have cleared up at all. I would estimate the visibility to be the same as it was this Summer so it doesn't seem like plankton die off either.
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#496980 - 09/29/18 06:42 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2454
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Well, I set here this morning pretty much stumped. This may sound stupid but the only thing I can come up with is the days are longer in July and August which would produce more sunlight for a longer period of time and I would think that might produce more oxygen producing algae. Sounds pretty stupid, when thinking the longer days would produce more heat-hotter water-less O2. And that shows up when comparing afternoon sample verses morning sample. You are just going to have to find someone smarter than me, and that should not be hard to do smile Let us know what you come up with. Most likely something simple lol
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Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#496990 - 09/29/18 10:37 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 504
Loc: Louisiana
That's what I think is called Aukums Razor (spelling) in which the simplest answer is usually the right one. (Saw that on big bang theory!!)
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#497026 - 09/30/18 12:23 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 847
Loc: in the mountains
Tracy - I hear you and feel pretty much the same.

I am assuming the simplest answer is it is from some kind of vegetative die off. I would just like to know WHAT exactly is dying off. I do not have much shoreline vegetation at all. The stuff I do have does not appear to be dying at all. Visibility seems the same as Summer so it doesn't seem like plankton is dying.
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#497084 - 10/01/18 08:49 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
Bill Cody Online   content
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YSI optical DO meters are supposed to be very accurate, thus the meter is likely okay. If you have the meter measure the surface oxygen in another local water body that is 'normal' and high near 8-10ppm. Or - if meter is at the cabin then when you return check DO in another very clear pond/lake to verify meter is reading a high DO.

Heavy cloud cover and storms on the previous day of the DO check probably reflects low DO production from the previous cloudy day and night.

Emerald green water with a dense algae amount in the pond could be having an influence on the DO due to more or lots of respiration and less photosynthesis. Next time there, check the surface DO at mid afternoon on a sunny day and the test it in the early morning just after sunrise when DO should be low compared to mid day; compare the two readings. This should give a rough estimate of the DO increase due to photosynthesis. Aerators appear to be mixing well the water column top to bottom. Aerators could be mixing low DO deep water throughout the pond during the day keeping DO at all depths lower. Amount of DO production due to photosynthesis will depend on the algae density (numbers per ml). Light penetration will not be very deep in emerald green water causing more respiration deep compared to DO production in the surface shallow layer from photosynthesis. Do you have a homemade secchi disk to get a clarity measurement? Secchi disk can be a rough estimate of algae density for comparison purposes.


Edited by Bill Cody (10/02/18 11:59 AM)
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#497202 - 10/04/18 09:06 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 847
Loc: in the mountains
Bill,

As always thank you for the insight. Unfortunately, the meter is at the cabin so I will have to check it out next Summer.

Highflyer came up this Summer with his Secci disk and we got some readings. I had to ask him because I didn't remember for sure. Our deepest reading was ~32" and the average was a little less than that.
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#497232 - 10/05/18 09:26 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
Bill Cody Online   content
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With a secchi disk reading of 32" in emerald green water expect natural DO production to 5' to 6' deep. This means lots of DO consuming respiration is going on at night and during cloudy days which is why your DO reading were relatively low of 3.5 to 4.6ppm.
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#497315 - 10/08/18 03:33 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 847
Loc: in the mountains
Thanks again Bill!

I didn't take a Secchi reading in September but clarity seems the same as it was in July. What would cause my DO numbers to change so much from July to September each year?

In other news....

"Winter is coming!"


Edited by wbuffetjr (10/08/18 03:42 PM)
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#497326 - 10/08/18 08:28 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
Bill Cody Online   content
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With light penetration of 32" and a pretty dense phytoplankton community (bloom) I think noticeable DO fluctuation would occur depending on amount of sunlight the surface receives. Remember the water column circulation you have will move the surface DO production due to phytoplankton photosynthesis throughout the water column. This will keep the surface DO lower compared to non-aerated pond. At least this is my explanation. Also in July the water was warmer at 65-70F compared to Sept of 49-54F and maybe the phytoplankton produced more oxygen in warmer water? Temperature and lack of sunlight may have acted together? Only a guess.


Edited by Bill Cody (10/08/18 08:35 PM)
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#497341 - 10/09/18 08:41 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 847
Loc: in the mountains
Got it, thanks Bill!

Do you think my phytoplankton will die off at some point when water temp falls to a certain level or will it take the pond icing over enough to block sunlight?

Hoping to get my buddy up there in a week or two to get another DO reading.
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#497342 - 10/09/18 09:48 AM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Phytoplankton growth depends a lot of the nutrient load and continual fluctuation of those nutrients that 'feed' the community. The two main growth nutrients are nitrogen and phosphorus, but don't forget about the other required macro and micro nutrients. The species composition of phytoplankton changes weekly if not daily due to various influences on the community. There are species that are adapted to thrive in all water temperatures. Nutrient loads and specific nutrient requirements of the species determine the density of algae. Don't expect a die off as water temperatures decrease unless the nutrients significantly decrease or the species encounter a limiting factor. When one most abundant specie dies out due to a limiting factor another specie with slightly different requirements is usually waiting to take its place. Again, total density is usually determined by nutrient availability.


Edited by Bill Cody (10/09/18 09:57 AM)
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#497657 - Yesterday at 04:12 PM Re: 8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s [Re: wbuffetjr]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 847
Loc: in the mountains
Buddy went up to our place on Friday to check on things. He was able to grab a quick DO reading while he was there. He didn't take the boat out so couldn't get data from very deep. We were at 6.5ppm at 1' and 4.5ppm at 5'. Unfortunately, he did not pay attention to water temp. 1/2HP Thomas 2660 running for 9.5 hours. 5:30am to 3:00pm.

At this point I have to think my DO numbers are down from last year due to the fact I am running a 1/2HP pump instead of the 1 HP pump. We have had some cloudy/rainy/snowy weather here recently so possible all the cloudy days reduced DO as well. It just seems DO was down all year.

Have already had first ice on the water and snow of the season up there. Much earlier than last year. The ice had already melted off the water by later that afternoon.



Below, Hole open from windmill

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