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#495700 - 08/31/18 03:23 PM Re: What is for lunch from the pond [Re: snrub]
RStringer Offline


Registered: 06/06/18
Posts: 16
Loc: Parsons KS
I'm having trouble finding your address to the get together. I think im only 30 minutes from ya.

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#495713 - 08/31/18 09:38 PM Re: What is for lunch from the pond [Re: RStringer]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5170
Loc: SE Kansas
I'll post the exact location a couple weeks before the get together. I'm only a little over a mile from the Kansas Crossing Casino. I'll PM you.

SE Kansas PBF get together September 22, 2018
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#495985 - 09/07/18 12:41 AM Re: What is for lunch from the pond [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5170
Loc: SE Kansas
Had some recent rains causing my sediment and forage ponds to overflow into the main pond (normal). One thing that fascinates me is how small BG desire to swim upstream. It is hard to make out the fish in the pictures but the 1" long BG are massed together in this flowing water crowded up against rocks or anything that gets them temporarily out of the current while they rest getting ready to make a run against the current trying to get upstream into another pond. There are hundreds of them staging. In one picture it looks like a couple BG are stranded and perhaps dead. But when I put my finger down by them they took off. They will find any crack or depression to get out of the current while waiting to make the run.

I see this every time there is a rain that causes this overflow. Sometimes the fish are of a larger size, often times 2-3" fish. If the water is at just the right flow amount, the main pond at the right height I have witnessed 3" BG swim up the waterfall flowing into the 90 degree elbo of the overflow pipe and make it from my main pond to the sediment pond. None have ever made it into my forage pond. Out of hundreds of trys in the sediment pond I saw 3 fish make it. None of these small fish in the pictures will make it. Water level is too low in the main pond. But it will not keep them from trying. Persistence.

The last picture of one of the fish with my fingers for size comparison. Fish between 1 and 1.5".

It is no wonder fish move from one BOW to another in the most shallow water.

PBF informal get together September 22, 2018


Attachments
20180830_174812.jpg (65 downloads)
Description: This is one of the overflow pipe outlets from the sediment pond to the main pond where the fish stage

20180906_115252.jpg (58 downloads)
Description: The black next to the rocks is a mass of 1" long YOY BG waiting to attempt to swim upstream to new water

20180906_115324.jpg (50 downloads)
Description: Some of the fish on the opposite side that appear to be in trouble but are just waiting their chance

20180906_115428.jpg (51 downloads)
Description: The water flow from the sediment pond the fish are attempting to go up the pipe and jump into this pond

20180906_115542.jpg (63 downloads)
Description: The black portion of the picture is a mass of 1" BG in my main pond at the outlet of my forage pond

20180906_115652.jpg (59 downloads)
Description: I reached down and caught this one by hand. All the black in the pictures are a mass of this size BG




Edited by snrub (09/07/18 01:15 AM)
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#495992 - 09/07/18 10:39 AM Re: What is for lunch from the pond [Re: snrub]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1861
Loc: West Michigan
Thanks for documenting this so clearly and so well! Everytime someone proposes that fish got into a body of water by holding on (with their fins apparently) to raccoon legs or that eggs get stuck on duck feathers.... the 1" long bluegill are feeling very slighted that they do not get the credit they deserve for being incredibly tenacious.

To see these tiny beings saving energy and throwing everything they got into swimming UPHILL in a torrent of water and some of them actually making it.. it speaks to how fish are more likely to transport THEMSELVES to other bodies of water rather than hitching a ride...

I would love to see others especially in southern states set up game cameras by tiny puddles or ponds and see how the fish get into them. I hear that gambusia will show up 'by themselves' in almost any body of water. It seems if you took a backhoe and dug a little depression and set up a game camera, and if fish did show up in there that it should be pretty easy to catch the GBH or raccoon or duck that landed there. And if they don't drop in from the sky or are carried in by another creature, then that puddle of water should stay void of fish, right?

Great things we learn on this forum!

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#495995 - 09/07/18 11:28 AM Re: What is for lunch from the pond [Re: canyoncreek]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5170
Loc: SE Kansas
My old pond and RES pond are side by side, separated by only maybe 100 feet. I built a terrace out into the field (actually a long extension of the dam on the RES pond) quite a long ways specifically for keeping the BH and GSF that I know are in my old pond from getting in my RES pond. In heavy downpours a sheet of water could be coming off the agricultural field and open a pathway for the unwanted fish to migrate. I think a half inch of water is all that is needed for very small fish.

I'm not absolutely sure even the terrace will be absolute control. Some day there may be enough runoff that fish could migrate anyway. But at the very least, just from a numbers game, it should keep the migration to a significantly lower level that what it could have been. If I had just built the dam that the pond "needed" a heavy rain with both ponds overflowing their emergency overflows they would have either almost or actually joined BOW's.

Having had experience with GSF and BH contamination in other ponds and seeing the potential in my brand new RES pond, I went to some length (moved some extra dirt) to prevent it.

One thing about fish contamination, it is much worse to get it early than late. Even if I do get contamination at some later date the desired species will already have established populations and a few unwanted fish will have a hard time getting established to a point of ruining the pond.
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#496033 - 09/08/18 11:42 AM Fiosh looks a little skinny [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5170
Loc: SE Kansas
Fish looks skinny. Little hard to tell by the picture but measured right at 18" or just a little more. Did not weigh it. It looked to be healthy and swam away well when released but in the picture it looks kind of skinny to me. Definitely no lack of forage in the pond because there is an abundance of BG and not enough LMB.

I might have culled this one but since I am short on LMB anyway I put it back. I had caught a 3-4" BG on a 1/32 oz jig and decided to just leave it on the hook. Tossed the line and BG back out and the bass took the BG and I landed it. Pretty good fight on a lightweight 9' crappie rod.

I hardly ever fish specifically for LMB so I do not catch too many. Was a bit of a surprise.


Attachments
20180907_194338 (600 x 600).jpg (62 downloads)
Description: 18" LMB that looks skinny to me




Edited by snrub (09/08/18 11:42 AM)
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#496044 - 09/08/18 05:56 PM Re: Fiosh looks a little skinny [Re: snrub]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19537
Loc: Miss.
That LMB is losing weight. It appears that it use to be heaver and is shrinking. How old do you think the LMB is ?
To have that size head and dorsal body mass indicates a much larger fish at one point in time.
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#496045 - 09/08/18 06:27 PM Re: Fiosh looks a little skinny [Re: snrub]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1387
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I'd have culled it, though with a heavy heart. But my BOW has lots of LMB, so even an 18 inch skinny one is not an asset.
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7 acre pond in east Texas, full pool reached March 2016. CNBG, RES, FHM stocked Nov 15; TP May 16; LSL bass 30 June 16. Added 100 12 inch N LMB and 1,000 shiners Oct 17, 150# TP and 70 HSB May 18




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#496046 - 09/08/18 06:27 PM Re: Fiosh looks a little skinny [Re: ewest]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5170
Loc: SE Kansas
It could very well be one of the original stocked, IIRC five years ago this fall.

It looked thin to me. Otherwise I did not see any external problems with it and it fought well.
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#496058 - 09/08/18 10:36 PM Re: What is for lunch from the pond [Re: canyoncreek]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5170
Loc: SE Kansas
Here are some more pictures of fish trying to swim up a water stream into my sediment pond. I don't think any of these fish will make it. The main pond is up in the tube now so the fish can rest better but the water dropping into the tube has to be at just the right flow rate. It might have been earlier in the day before I got there though.

Some GSF. Lots of BG


Attachments
20180908_121326.jpg (45 downloads)
20180908_121617.jpg (39 downloads)
20180908_121339.jpg (34 downloads)
20180908_165047.jpg (36 downloads)
20180907_184908.jpg (38 downloads)
20180907_184934.jpg (26 downloads)
20180907_185753.jpg (41 downloads)



Edited by snrub (09/08/18 10:46 PM)
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#497264 - 10/06/18 10:53 PM Re: What is for lunch from the pond [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5170
Loc: SE Kansas
I've had virtually no recruitment from my LMB for the last few years so my BG population has gotten too large creating too many small and medium sized BG but few really large ones. If left unchecked I feel like the situation will turn into stunted BG. I've been feeding and harvesting a lot so the BG are staying in relative good body condition but there are still just too many of them.

So starting nearly a year ago last fall the decision was to raise some LMB fingerlings up to the 10-12" size in my sediment pond and transfer them over to the main pond to help with the BG control. If I get the LMB population more in balance it should take care of the BG over population and allow the LMB to start getting some natural recruitments.

I put a hundred 4-6" LMB in the sediment pond last December and thought it was a bust. I had only caught and moved a half dozen fish, figuring the rest had died. Well turns out I just did not know how to catch them. By using various large lures and lately GSH on a circle hook under a bobber have transferred about 30 LMB to this main pond. Most were in the 10-12" range with a couple 9" runts and one fatty 16" (I suspect it ate some of its brothers and sisters). First picture below is of kind of an average one.

In addition have been adding a few SMB from my RES/SMB pond. Caught two 13" ones tonight and transferred. Second picture is of the first one. This makes 7 of these transferred in the 12-13" range. I've also transferred a half dozen in the 6-8" range.

Hopefully all the transfers will do well and get my BG population under control.

Edit: added picture of the LMB fingerlings when stocked December 6, 2017


Attachments
20181002_174557.jpg (38 downloads)
Description: LMB raised in sediment pond transferred to main pond

20181006_175534.jpg (31 downloads)
Description: one of two 13" SMB transferred to the main pond from my RES/SMB pond

20181002_181523.jpg (21 downloads)
Description: A smaller SMB transferred to the main pond

20171206_131744.jpg (23 downloads)
Description: The LMB as fingerlings when they were stocked in the sediment pond 12-6-2017

20181001_182616 (600 x 600).jpg (35 downloads)
Description: The largest LMB to date raised from the December 6, 2017 fingerlings above

20180929_073033 (600 x 600).jpg (32 downloads)
Description: Although not so long, but a fatty.




Edited by snrub (10/07/18 12:26 AM)
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