Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking a new pond in NE Dallas

Howdy,

I need some help figuring out what kind of fish to stock in my new pond. I think I've read every article about fish in this forum and my PondBoss magazines. However, at this point I've gone cross-eyed and decided to enlist the help of the actual experts!

First, some background on my pond: It is a fully excavated pond that was completed the first week of June on 16 acres that I own. It's located in NE Dallas County (5 minutes from the new Firewheel Mall in Garland for those of you around Dallas). The pond is shaped like a teardrop (or tadpole since this is a pond forum!). The main circle section of the pond is 110' in diameter and 17-18' deep at the deepest. The 'long' direction of the pond is 170-180' (i.e. from 'head' to 'tail'), with the 'tail' of the pond ranging from 8' to 3' towards the back. The pond contains just a bit shy of 4 acre feet of water with a surface area of approximately 1/3 acre.

Within 4 days of the dirt work being done and paying the bill to my excavator, the pond filled up! For the last 2 months, the pond has been filled to the brim and has been overflowing the spillway.

The #1 reason for building the pond is that I needed all the dirt for my house pad. I'm planning to start building on the property later this summer. This is assuming that I don't build an ark instead. The rain has been crazy!

You can see a picture of the main part of the pond here http://jeremyhaltom.com/images/pond.jpg " target="_blank"> http://jeremyhaltom.com/images/pond.jpg . The tail part (not completed in the picture) of the pond is behind my wife who took the picture.

Now about the fish: Two weeks ago, I put in 4# of FHM and 5# of GSH into the pond. The water is still a bit of a 'tea' brown color because of all the rain. But, in the lone 48 hour period we've had over the last two months that it didn't rain, I noticed that some algae is already starting to grow on the pallet structure that I put into the pond. I was also able to see to a depth of about a 22-30" during that time.

My end goal is to have a low maintenance pond with a healthy fish population. I’ll be able to see the pond from my back porch, so my wife wants the pond to be 'pretty', and I have some nephews who will love to come over for some fishen’. I'm only expecting to harvest/eat about 50-100 fish a year. Any other fishing will be catch and release or maybe a slot limit if required. In addition, if it looks like I need to, I will add an aeration system to the pond next spring.

I'm thinking that I would like to stock some BG (not sure if they should be HBG, CNBG, etc) with some CC this fall. Then, next spring, to control the fish density, maybe add a few SMB or LMB. I'm not a big bass guy, but I know from reading all the posts that I need some kind of top end predator to keep things in balance. However, I’m not against doing some 'revamping' work every 6-10 years to reset or restock the pond as needed. Also, if I do run into a bad weed or algae problem, I don't mind a few Tilapia in the summertime as well.

How does this sound? Is this too many types of fish for such a small pond? What kind of BG should I go with? Should I go with LMB or SMB to keep the fish population down?

Thanks!

Welcome JeremyH, to the PB forum.
Sound like you have done your homework – yep, I know Firewheel Mall all right.
Now if you look at my member number you’ll see that I am a relative newcomer, but I got demoted recently when changed my email address.
I’ve been around for a goodly number of years now, and have learned enough from the PB forum experts to discuss, but not advise your stocking plans.

There are those that like HBG and will likely recommend them for your 1/3 acre pond for casual fishing – I prefer a CNBG/RES mix but am serious about my fishing in our N.E. Texas ponds.

As far as predators, I would not consider SMB in the black gumbo soil I see in you photo.
I think it would require major expensive rock and gravel additions to create spawning areas, as well as perhaps a deep well to keep cool water source, thinking about our hot Texas summers.

As you know, there have been many reports of LMB reproductive overpopulation problems which I personally would avoid unless you are a serious fisherman.

Have you considered HSB (Hybrid Striped Bass)?
They are inexpensive to stock initially, and as you likely know, do not reproduce.
I like non-reproductive species.

There have been reports on the forum that HSB do not do well in small ponds, and do not survive Texas summers when reaching a “critical” five pounds, but I have not found this to be the case.

We have been successful with HSB in the five-pound class in a 2 acre aerated pond, with numbers of 1 to 4 pound fish.

We are also successful in growing them to three pound class in a ¼ acre non-aerated CNBG/HSB pond, for the past two record breaking hot drought years
We’ll determine the survival rate the next couple of years, and also see how well they control CNBG reproduction.

I would be careful about the numbers of CC, stocking ONLY the numbers you plan to harvest on an annual basis, and repalcing annually if more needed.

Good to have you on board.
You will find the most knowledgeable and helpful folks on this forum that will further respond to your questions.

George Glazener
Plano, Texas

I would stock some hybrid striped bass like was suggested above.

Good eating and fighting fish plus a good predator that can reach 20 pounds.

Ok, thanks for the information!

Somehow, I did not realize that HSB didn't reproduce in small ponds, so they are now at the top of my list for the top end predator. My pond is 17' deep, so I'm hoping that with a little aeration, it should keep the pond a tad bit cooler for the HSB to survive. I won't do any fishing for them when the water temp is above 80F or so (unless I'm going to eat them) so I can try to avoid killing them.

I think my pond stocking strategy will be something like the following:

1) 100 larger CNBG stocked in the fall of '07
2) 50 RES stocked in the fall of '07
3) 20 or so CC stocked in the fall of '07
4) A handful of HSB stocked in the spring of '08 (not sure how many)

Then, if I get any issues with FA or Weeds, I'll put in some Tilapia as needed. Does that seem reasonable?

Then, every year (or maybe every other year), I'll add some new HSB as necessary to keep a couple of different sizes going. I'll also add CC as required as well. I don't have any spawning structure for CC, so I'm hoping that they won't try to take over the pond.

I went out to my pond yesterday, and I have a ton of little fry in the shallow areas. I’m not sure if they are FHM or GSH since they are still just eyes and tail, but I’m glad they are starting to reproduce. Since I put the FHM and GSH in the pond, I haven’t seen any of them at all. I was hoping that they didn’t get washed out of the pond with all the rain we’ve had.

Again, thanks for the info!

Low maintenance, huh? That works for awhile and then you always have to make some corrections. Not a big deal, though.

My PERSONAL favorite small pond stocking plan, with limited work, is hybrid bluegill and channel cat. HSB can substitute for catfish. Your choice. Both HBG and CC can spawn but initial recruitment is poor. Sooner or later you can wind up with a bunch of small green sunfish mix but they make pretty good fish bait.

Tilapia and grass carp are both good tools but have to be matched to the problem if one exists. Grass carp do poorly on FA and tilapia aren't much good at controlling most pondweed. There's not a one size fits all in this case.

Use a feeder and an aerator and you should be able to sleep nights and enjoy the fishing for quite awhile.

One thing to think about. Is your pond really 1/3 acre? Most of us overestimate the actual size. I certainly do. Also, in an average year, we don't get much summertime rain. This has been a very unusual year. A 1/3 acre water hole can quickly become 1/4 acre or less. Make stocking and maintenance plans accordingly.

Dave,

Thanks for the info!

I'm not going to stock Grass carp or Tilapia until I have a summer under my belt and understand what weeds/FA I'm going to have to deal with. Right now, I don't have a real problem with either one. I have about 100sq2 of light pond scum total on my pond, so it's barely anything. I was really expecting much more FA and weeds than I currently have. Maybe as the summer wears on, I’ll start seeing a problem.

The actual size of the pond at spillway level is .382 acres (I finally put some of that Calculus III and other math minor classes to work!). At normal pool, the pond is .355 acres in size. Assuming we get the same drought as last year (worst in 50 years I heard on the news the other day), then my pond should drop 7-8' from normal pool based on my neighbors ponds during the last two years. So, I'll end up with a surface area in the neighborhood of the .21-.25 acre range. It's hard to measure when the pond is full, so I'm going off some slope assumptions and excluding my built in shallow area that should go completely dry for my 'drought' size. I had the pond dug extra deep in the main area of the pond as a 'reserve water hole' in case of drought. I talked to my two neighbors who have ponds of similar size, and for the last 30 years, excluding the last two years of drought, their ponds have only dropped 2-3 feet in the middle of a normal summer.

I also realized last week that I messed up on the size of my watershed. I calculated it using the topographical maps from NTCOG (www.dfwmaps.com). This site will allow you to draw on the satellite view with the topographical lines overlaid and it'll tell you the size of the area that you just drew. That map, along with Pub. 590 gave me the size in acre feet that my pond should be. However, I stopped drawing when I hit a road not far away, since I thought it diverted water away from my watershed into a different area. However, I happened to drive over there the other day during a rain storm and realized that it's diverting water into my watershed. After recalculating my watershed, I now have 2.5 times the watershed that my pond needs. This explains even more why I've been having a small river of water over my spillway during the recent heavy rains and why the pond went from completely empty to full in 4 days (even given the crazy amount of rain we've been having)! Oh well, I guess it's better to err' on the side of too much watershed, than too little, even though I would have rather had a larger pond.

I may have to change my stocking strategy just a bit. I was out at the property the other day (it’s like a curse, every day that I’m not flying around the country/world for work, I have to go out to the pond and peer into the water), I noticed some fish that looked odd. They were 3-4” long with a black stripe down the side, black tipped tail, and very, very quick. They were ‘rounding’ up the fry against the shore and then one by one, they would dart up and grab a little fry. After checking some of the photos on this board and other web sites, I think they are young Bass of some sort. I tried catching one last weekend to verify, but they kept eluding me. Since it appears that they are decimating my fry population (not much vegetation for protection), I may have to accelerate my plans to get some BG in to the pond along with a few more pounds of FH’s.

That sounds like the way I describe small LMB.

Yep, LMB.

JeremyH, did you stay with your original stocking strategy?

If so, where did the “fish that looked odd” come from?
“They were 3-4” long with a black stripe down the side, black tipped tail”

If they are LMB fingerlings, as others believe, could you have received a “contaminated” order BG and FH/s from your supplier?

JeremyH,

Howdy to you also! HSB may reach 20 pounds in a small pond somewhere, but I'd advise you to check the Texas records before jumping in that direction. I was sold HSB as a fish that "would easily attain 8 to 10 pounds" in about three years in my ponds. Five years later, many 6 to 10 pound LMB and zero HSB over 6 pounds have been raised in my ponds. As is often said, it all depends.

Your stated objectives were for a low maintenance pond with a healthy fish population. Several ways to achieve that. The absolute lowest maintenance pond fish strategy I know of is the standard LMB/BG combination. This approach requires zero artificial feeding and zero fish replenishment and will sustain itself for decades without intervention.

Many will argue that such a pond will become overpopulated with LMB or BG or both. Without significant human intervention, the pond will reach an equilibrium, a balance as determined by Nature. That balance likely will be made up of numerous small 12 inch LMB with a very small number of large LMB. The BG will be very numerous of various sizes. If you infrequently fish the pond, it will offer tremendous fast action on those small LMB and a variety of different sized BG. You can find hundreds, thousands of such ponds all across East Texas. I've had several of them myself....and have enjoyed them immensely. Good luck on your pond journey!

Jeremy, as ML says, "It all depends".
The statement that ML quotes that HSB grow to 20 pounds in private ponds is incorrect.

The Texas HSB record in public waters is 19 #'s caught from our nearby reservoir Lake Ray Hubbard.

Bruce Condello has grown one to 16 and and we have them in the 5#+ class.

Just because ML has failed in his attempt to grow large HSB does not set a standard.

Personally I would be happy to fish for 3 to 5 pound HSB for the rest of my life.
A 5# HSB will out fight a 8 # LMB any day of the week.
My 2 cents worth...

George,

I'm not sure where the LMB came from. The only place it could have come is either by some miracle of nature, or with them mixed into my FH and GSH shipment earlier this year.

I went down to Overton last weekend and bought a bunch of BG from them. They thought my LMB probably came from my earlier FH and GSH shipment once I told them where I got them from.

This fall, I'll go back down to Overton and pick up some CC and some HSB. They said to add a few HSB just to keep the LMB in check and to also add a bit of diversity to the pond as well.

I've been feeding the BG every couple of days recently. It's kind of fun to watch them boil at the surface eating the food. Right now I'm having to focus more attention on the house we're building on the land, so the pond has been moved to the back burner while we work with the Architects and Builders. We're building a super energy efficient house (SIP panels, Geo-Thermal Heat Pump, spray foam, etc) that still looks like a regular house, so it's taking a lot more planning than a normal.

Jeremy

Jeremy,
As you shift your focus to your new crib, please entertain and inspire us with some pics and details of the structure. There are many of us that really dig them diggs. Start your own thread or jump on board the Human Habitat thread . (at least a couple of pics and paragraphs, please ) We have had numerous discussions on energy efficiency, largely based on geothermal application. Your project will stir up alot of interest.
Thanks!

Jeremy, I second what Brettski said. As you progress start a thread about how you progress with your home building. I have been in the research phase for my pond house now for about a year. I also have looked into SIPs and the foam/concrete building systems and also modular homes. Our home is going to be solar which also adds a learning process into the mix. Keep us posted!

Jeremy welcome to PB. Nice hovercraft by the way. For those of you that don't know, Jermey already has a motorized(home built) pond toy. Good luck with your new project. I'm very interested in the geothermal stuff. I want to install a geothermal pond unit. I didn't have much look finding a contractor in the DFW area that installed these.

What? I missed this. I'm an ex-HC'er; owned a Scat II

Bski go to http://jeremyhaltom.com he has the entire project from start to finish even video of test flights. He should add it here as a pond project post for the other project junkies like us. I'd like one but it might take a Rolls Royce inline 12 and this new lift fan we are putting in the JSF to create enough lift to get my AS... off the grass.

Brettsk, as I move along and I get into the construction phase, I'll post something on the other thread. I'm planning on documenting the build on my web site as I go along.

Rockytopper, I'm sorry you had to see my old and ugly website. I really need to get some spare time to revamp that into something presentable. However, it does have the pictures of the hovercraft build. It is a fun toy for sure! There is nothing like pulling up to the lake, parking in the parking lot, and driving my hovercraft right down the boat ramp and into the water! I haven't put it on my pond yet since I don't want to give my fish a heart attach from all the noise and commotion! ;-)

Affirmitive on that one!
I think I got my best drop-jaw stares when I would approach a multi-lane boat launch from the water while folks are loadin' their boats. Come cruising in about 20 mph from the lake, right up the empty launch lane, do a spin in the parking lot, and shoot right back down the launch about 30 mph, onto the lake and gone. Dang, I miss that thing...what a buzz.

Jeremy....
Stop goofin' with that ho-made stuff. Time for a real man's toy