Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Perch Identification pictures

This is my first post and I am merely a pond managing rookie compared to most here. I manage the 4-5 acre ponds on my parent's land. I have recently begun only managing two of them as I am not there enough to do all. I try to keep a lot of perch in the ponds and take out all bass under 14. I catch some nice 5lb but rarely anything bigger. I have made some gains in the past year as I catch more 15-16in bass rather than 13-14.

I have begun trapping perch from a small pond and moving them to one of my main ponds. I think I know the answers to what these perch are, but just want to make sure.

1. Redear?


2. This one is my main concern. Is this a green sunfish or a hybrid and what is the best way to ID them from each other? Also do I simply need to toss this type of perch when I catch them?


Are there any differences in the following 3 types?
3.


4.


5.


Thanks in advance for any responses!

Hooksetter welcome to the PB forum. What state are your ponds in? Iding small lepomis (BG , GSF , RES , PS ,RBS , etc) can be hard from a pic as they can vary from place to place. When crosses/hybrids are involved it is even harder. We enjoy guessing on threads like this. Here goes.

1. RES
2. GSF
3. BG
4. RES
5. BG

The two ponds in question are 15-18 years old. Both were originally stocked with some Florida strain, but I am sure that is long gone.

They both have a fair amount of moss, but less this year due to the extra rain it is not as present. Some years the water is really clear due to the moss, but has remained stained this year. Both ponds should have a variety of shad and minnows in them, but they are rarely seen. Both have crappie which I know are a no no on this board, but the bass seem to eat a lot of the young crappie. I don't know how I would ever get the crappie out at this point.

I see a ton of perch up shallow, but I still catch skinny bass now and then. I think they just have a hard time catching the perch. Most of the bigger fish are pretty chunky

My main question is should I toss the Green Sunfish/Hybrids when I catch them in my trap?

From what I understand the GSF should be removed from the pond. I belive it has to do with their large mouth and when they get bigger they can compete to strongly for forage.

What do you want (goals) from the ponds ?

BLASPHEMER!

WE ARE STILL WATCHING....

Come on, Eric, We're identifying BG perch, RES perch, and GSF perch. He's gotta be in Texas.

BTW I agree with your perch ID guesses.

I agree with Ewest on ID.

Hooksetter, you will notice that some of us have different opinions on the Green Sunfish. I like them. State records indicate that they seldom get as big as a BG. However, it is my opinion that, for their size, they outfight them. They are also more cylindrical shaped so are easier for a predator to digest. Since they only spawn anually, they rarely "take over" a pond. I would personally put that little guy back in the water as bass food.

BTW, it would be helpful if you would indicate your location. It really matters.

Also, most of us here, although raised to call all of them perch, think of a perch as a Yankeefied fish named a yellow perch. Yeah I know, but it makes communication here a lot easier for us when someone says BG, CNBG, RES, GSF, etc.

I agree with how hard GSF fight. They are fun to catch. Dave you now got me wondering about the GSF.

The ponds are located about 50 miles west of Fort Worth, Texas

My apologies to the earlier question of "what state are your ponds in?" When I read that I thought he meant what is the condition/status of the ponds!

As for what I want from my ponds- I really just want the same thing that most want and that is catching quality healthy bass instead of one 14 incher after another.

I never fish for sunfish so raising giant perch isn't an issue. I just want the bass to have plenty to eat. When I was up there last weekend the perch were heavy on the sides of the ponds and most were on beds with the full moon.

Comment about fish in Photo No 4.
Identification of this fish is problematic. Body markings of small or junvenile bgill can be quite variable even in the same water body. Variability of body markings can be due to several factors which I will not get into here. A positive identification is even more difficult from photographs, although your photograps are pretty good and good enough for me to make some comments.
ewest is getting better at sunfish identification. I think ewest's ID's are pretty good except for fish No 4 and this is why:
1. Note the No 1 fish (RES - I agree with ewest) appears stunted because I think the eye diameter is noticably disproportionate to the head size. In the photos, compare the eye size of all the fish which are of similar size. Large eye size is not a key physical feature of RES. Disproportionate eye size typically occurs in stunted fish.

2. Eye size of fish No 4 could be very slightly enlarged but not to the extreme of fish 1. This indicates to me that since fish 1 & 4 are quite close to the same size they "should" be of the same age class. Thus, ASSUMING both fish came from the same pond, and if both were the SAME species they should have similar food availability, food habits, life style habits, growth rates and similar sized eyes which is not the case. Thus I think they are likely different species. If fish 1&4 came from different ponds then this does not apply.

3. Look closely at the total length of the pectorial (side) fin of fish 1 & 4. In fish 1, the pectorial fin extends "quite a ways" past the end of the pelvic (front lower) fin, to even past the insertion of the anal fin. Thus the pectorial fin is quite long in fish 1 which is a character of RES. In fish 4 the pectorial fin "might" just reach the insertion of the anal fin. Pectorial fin is measurably shorter in fish no 4 compared to fish 1. Thus I think they are different and probably different species.
4. Opercle (gill) flaps. Look at the gill flaps of the lower 3 fish (likely all BG). The length of the flaps of 3,4,5, is variable esp on fish 5 where it is longer and back side is more rounded than of fish 3&4. But the important feature I think is to look at the shape of front portion of the dark gill spot on fish 3,4,5. Spots appear to not extend very far onto gill cover and they end as essentially a vertical mark or line. Spots appear to end anteriorly at the intersection of the subopercular and opercular bones. This is definately not the case on fish No 1. It's gill spot is rounded anteriorly and extends farther onto the gill cover or farther onto the opercular bone compared to fish 3,4,&5.
5. There are a few other minor differences but the four that I provided above are enough for me to think fish 1 and 4 are not the same species. Fish 4 could be a hybrid BG but I doubt it. I think it is just a color pattern variation of a BG.

All this is ID stuff specific and not important to your topic of gorwing bigger bass. All the fish in your photos appear to be around 4.2"-4.7"(GSF may be slightly smaller) long which are very good food items for LMbass in the 13"-15" category. Thus this is probably why you have seen your LMB grow from 13"-14" to the next size group larger of 15"-16". Keep in mind that for these large bass to efficiently grow to the 17"-18" class they SHOULD have an abundance of slightly larger sunfishes in the 5"-6" range.

As a novice I love these close up live pictures so that I may start being able to ID them in the future. I have a very hard time remembering from one fish to the next what to look for and have to refer back to documents so much that it takes the fun out of it, I hope that one day I will be able to recolect them right away.

Question on the first picture of the res, Does his eyes look much bigger for his body, is he stunted or at a growing stage that might cause it.

What are the pros/cons of GSF compared to a Hybrid?

You may well have some HBG. If you want a good LMB fishery and don't care about the lepomis then it is ok to have GSF in the mix as you have a bunch of BG. Just keep an eye on the relative #s and sizes of them all as per Bill's post.

See these threads from the archives on sunfish and HBG/GSF/BG with pics.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92482#Post92482

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...ite_id/1#import

I respectfully point out that GSF have been recorded at 2.2 lbs.

respectfully noted

on the fish ID's, 1, 2 and 3 seem straight forward, but i see RES genetics in 4 and 5, maybe hybrids w/ BG.

hooksetter, as a co-founding member of the GSF Association, i had to chime in here. similar to dave's comments, with all the competition from the bass, BG, and RES you may likely find a large GSF population wont survive the long term. given yer objectives, i would leave them in for additional and probably preferred lmb forage (because of their lower profile shape).

Hooksetter now you see why I said this is a lot of fun. : Some very knowledgeable lepomis guys who don't always see the same thing. Truth is any one of us may be right or wrong.

trails - read part No.1 of my post immediately above yours.

Thanks for all of the comments and links.

It is possible that the fish could be stunted because they are from a very small pond that suffered severe drought over the past couple years. The pond does have some bass in it and they all look pretty chunky because they don't have much competition. I am trying to pull as many BG out of there as I can and dump in my good ponds to put as much food out there as possible.

Looking fwd to this weekend so I can get to trapping again.

I will try to get some more pics of HBG/GSF so that everybody on the board can get better at identifying them at a younger age.

Hooksetter says: "It is possible that the fish could be stunted because they are from a very small pond that suffered severe drought over the past couple years. The pond does have some bass in it and they all look pretty chunky because they don't have much competition."
Panfish are stunted not because of pond size or drought. It is because they are not getting enough food. When fish do not get enough food it usually means they are too crowded for the productivity (food production) of the pond they are living in. Most common solutions are reduce the fish numbers or feed the fish or some combination of both. The best ecological solution is reduce the fish numbers. Feeding the fish stresses the ecological balance of the pond and fish kills are more likely with this problem of too many fish.

I am looking forward to seeing additional photos of your smaller panfish.

Ahhhhhh Ok here is my time to shine and be a Northerner Smart A**!! I didn't see a single Perch in any of those pics!!! All I saw were some bluegill/sunfish/etc... or what some of us up north here would call either baitfish of pests!!!

Ok now I am going to hide under a rock until all of my southern friends out there lynch me up for sacrilege!!

But all kidding aside they are a nice group of a variety of panfish. If I was to have a panfish pond I certainly would want that type of variety.

eric, please refer to JHAP's post above

HEHEEHEHE Still Hiding under a rock here.

You can come out from under the rock now Eric. Anytime "they" wanna drop some of their wimpy GSF or RES in my pond with the 32" Walleye their more than welcome. One look at that gaping mouth full of teeth on Wally and the GSF & RES would be hiding under the rocks.

Or better yet how about some 3 foot plus Northerns?

Kidding aside, nice looking group of fish Hooksetter. Enjoy their progress.

Dan

Dan you can bring your eyes and northerns down here and put them in my oxbow lake with the gators and gator gar. They could use the extra bait. BTW those RES seem to be mean enough to survive here.



just kidding.