Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam Underwater cliff?

After jealously reading posts on this site and reading Pond Boss for a couple of years, I finally took the leap and am building a pond. I'm going to need help as I progress.

A little background and history -

My pond site is a natural ravine in southeast Texas (near Woodville). There are lots of small springs on the property, and a small branch - about 40 gallons per minute - flows through the ravine. The pond will be 4.5 or 5 acres and the dam is about 300 feet long and about 25 feet from branch bottom to the top of the dam. (pictures below)

I got lots of recommendations for a local contractor named Ernest. He's about 77 and has been building ponds for over 40 years in this area. He still can put in an 8 hour day on a D6 in 95 degree heat, so maybe there is some hope for me yet!

The pond bottom is blue clay in some areas, red clay in other areas, and sandy loam in others - mostly the shallower areas. Ernest says there is solid blue clay under all of it.

He cored the dam and put in an 8 inch drain pipe with seep collars to carry the branch during construction. He recommended just a plate on the drain pipe, but agreed to put on an 8 inch steel butterfly valve, which we shut last weekend when the dam was finished. We then seeded with topbrown millet and covered it with hay.

My first (of many!) question relates to an underwater cliff created during the construction process. Ernest found two banks of solid red clay which he said was the best for the dam, and had to dig into them heavily, creating an 8 foot cliff which will be underwater when the pond fills. He says the cliff will be fine when it is totally underwater, with just a gradual rounding off of the edges.

Does anyone have any comments on whether I need to do something with the cliff, or is it ok as is? Any comments on anything else?

The first picture is the pond and the dam one week after closing the drain. The second is my wife in front of the cliff. The third is Ernest digging the clay 2 weeks ago.

Welcome to pond boss! I leave the cliff question to one of the experts. Looks like you have a great start on what will be a beautiful pond.

What kinds of fish are ya gonna stock?

rrussler, like JHAP says, welcome aboard and congrats on your project kicking off.

Various underwater contours are great for fish. A cliff type contour in the bottom is very good. You can improve on that by varying the cliff a few ways such as cutting into the cliff in a few areas to make a gradual lane from shallow to deep. Underwater humps and any kind of "changes" are good fish gathering areas.

Having an 8' drop-off underwater is maybe more than needed, and perhaps if you are going to use to the pond for swimming, it could be dangerous for those who can't swim that well. If you have livestock, it could be dangerous also.

Another point to consider is if you will have fluctuating water levels. If so, you want to factor that into your plans.

Thanks. So far, my thoughts are for a pretty basic stocking plan - fathead minnows, bluegill, LMB, tilapia, and maybe gambusia. I've got plenty of time since it will take months to fill. Hopefully, I'll have enough water to put in the minnows and bluegill this fall.

My next issue to work on is going to be water quality.

Rick

Rick welcome to PB. The cliff is a great place for concentrating fish. It appears to be at a good depth 3ft to 10ft +- . You might want to add a vertical brush pile or 2 out from the cliff about 6-8 ft ( a gap between the cliff and brush pile of 6-8 ft). A log or tree that the runs out from the top of the cliff and extends over deep water is also good.

I assume you are not concerned that the area might leak. Sunil's points are good ones also.

Thanks, guys.

Sunil - here is a side picture of the cliff. Yes, I need to think about how steep it is. The top of the cliff will be under several feet of water about 5 feet from shore. The bank is also quite steep right here. Picturesque, but not good for my wife's goats or human kids. There is a really good beach area near by, so I may do something with landscaping to make this area less attractive.

The water level should be constant. I have a large primary spillway and with the constant flow in from the year-round springs, I don't think evaporation will be an issue.

Ewest - thanks for the structure ideas. I like the log leaning against the cliff - I have plenty of them. A follow on question is - is there any difference between hardwoods or pine as structure? I have tons of each.

When green they both sink easily and will last underwater. Some say oaks release tannins into the water which may effect fish. I have not seen that problem during the many times I have used them. Pines make the water more acid. Oaks are harder and I think last longer. Either will work fine. I would use some with a root ball with dirt on them if you have them . Put the root ball in the deep water area. If you have a few stumps with root ball and dirt put them about 5 ft from the bottom of the cliff.

rrussler...
I don't believe saying welcome is necessarily in order for a veteran registered Jan '03. I sense that you've passively participated in this forum for a long time.
Wow; we share some similar pondal attributes, eh? An old pro, semi-retired dirt-guy on a high-track D-6 building your 5 acre dream. 300 some-odd foot dam. You've got me trumped with depth, tho. Great project. I'm gonna watch with interest. Keep this one current on the forum.
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Congrats, man!

Thanks, Brettski. I've been following your projects closely. The more I see people doing, the more I know I want to do also.

On the cliff..how far from bank before it drops off? If it's out in 4-6 feet of water, folks should be swimming before they hit that drop.

Outta be a real fish magnet.

Matt - Thanks for your reply. I need to shoot the shoreline to get an exact answer, but it should be 3 feet deep before the drop. You can't tell from the picture, but right behind where I took the photo is a nice shallow entrance where I intend to put a beach. The bank above the cliff is not a likely place for people to either walk or swim from since its pretty steep.

Rick

It's a balancing act. My first pond, my builder was almost paranoid about steep banks, to the point that I've a lot of bankline that's too shallow for me. You have to walk 75 feet from the beach to get neck deep.

The second guy was more interested in digging a hole and building a dam to worry about slope (I was out of town for most of the project). Except for where I dug with the tractor removing extra top soil he left behind, most of the bankline is too steep to climb back out of easily. Can't mow with the ZTR...have to use the ATV and (former) trailmower.

Tell me exactly what's best and I'd be happy.

Matt, would you care to expand on your experience with various slopes, especially as it relates to weed control and maintenance? To avoid hijacking this thread you could post it in the following thread. If you find that you don't have anything to add, that won't be a problem with me. Thanks.

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