Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Horizontal aeration

Alright now, here's a new one for everybody. This winter I plan on opening a new thread, which I'll leave a mystery for now, but I think there will be lots of interest in. However, in order to adequately prep myself I'm going to need to ask a couple of different questions.

I happen to think that a pond of about 4,000 square feet in size, and an average depth of 5 feet, with a maximum depth of 12-15 feet is a very interesting size pond to study. To me this size pond is intrigueing because it's a size large enough to support two or three species, in a somewhat natural interaction, but be small enough to be fairly inexpensive to build and can be drained as a management tool.

Two of my ponds meet this criteria. One of them has had a couple of days of serious oxygen deficits during the very heat of the summer. Once I was aerating and pumping in water at a fairly high rate. A dieoff of micro and macrophytic life still overwhelmed my airlift's ability to provide O2. The other time I had a couple of calm nights, combined with an algae crash and I lost fish as well. Each time the well water was being infused at about 12 gpm and was being sprayed under pressure at concrete blocks through 2.5 gpm sweeper nozzles.

Now here's where I think it gets interesting. When my O2 started to plummet early this August I tried something new, that worked incredibly well. I bought a new, bigger nozzle that delivers 8 gpm but instead of spraying it over concrete blocks, I supported to nozzle horizontally about four inches under the surface. My pressure tank on my well was at about 50 psi. An amazing result was that the water in my 4,000 s.f. pond began to swirl around the pond. The DO levels immediately went through the roof! I had been measuring levels that varied from a high of 6.5 ppm in the afternoon to 2.5 ppm at night (sometimes lower). After changing to a circulating system the DO went from 7.8 in the afternoon but never dropped below 4.5 at night. To a fish grower this is a huge difference!

Now to non fish growers I present the following theory. Kasco, and some other companies sell surface aerators of .5 and .75 hp that are mounted on the surface of a pond and cause a "bubble" effect. This doesn't turn water over like an airlift, so it's not as efficient at overall O2 delivery, but it does deliver O2 quite well at night. Anyway, what would be the effect on smaller ponds of buying the horizontal mount and swirling the pond water day and night? Could the effect on everyday ponds be as similarly dramatic as on my pond? Is there a chance that such a system would allow southern ponds to support fish that ordinarily require a little cooler water? Could someone in Oklahoma grow a few yellow perch? Maybe a guy with a small pond in Oklahoma could try this. My pond completely changed colors when I began horizontal circulation. What had been brownish for two months changed to jade green. Even my deeper water without an airlift measured O2 that was usable by fish.

I just thought this might generate a little intrigue. Any thoughts?

Here's a link to a product that might do the trick. I AM NOT advocating this particular brand. There may be others that Ted Lea Forevergreen might be able to provide for our edification.
http://www.aeratordeicer.com/circulators.html

Bruce:

If you were as interested in Dentistry as you are in ponds, cavities and gingivitis(sp?) would be history.

This is one of those concepts that after it is thought of, seems so simple. Forced turnover via water flow under pressure (or apparently horizontal airflow). I've watched this about 10,000 times while filling watering troughs, and the idea never crossed the plane into the pond management area of my brain.

I'm assuming you see hope for cooler-than normal species from temperature averaging the water in the entire pond (top to bottom), with O2 levels also distributed fairly evenly top to bottom. Is this correct?

Interesting concept Bruce. I would be curious to know what effect, if any, the shape of the pond would play on the O2 results. One would think a circular pond would reap the most benefits.

Russ and Theo. You're both right on the money. My pond is closer to circular than anything else. It has a little character to it, but no sharp shoreline bends. My 8 gpm sweeper nozzle is about four feet from shore, angled parallel to the shoreline. It's making the water spin around the entire periphery. I didn't think the one nozzle could do the trick, but this pond has 150,000 gallons and on a calm morning you can see the little surface particulate working it's way around the entire edge.

I am actually hoping that my deeper water isn't turned over as frequently, leaving a cooler layer on the bottom but with enough circulation to not become anoxic.

Bruce :

Great idea !! It seems that with a little endg. you could make the system also be lowered in the pond with the sweeper nozzle pointing up to use it to turn over the water and add o2 at depth and to cool the pond in summer. You need to think about current flow to see what water is moving where to get an idea of mixing effect. If you ran the sweeper until the top water was well oxygenated and then lowered the nozzle (pointed up) the currents should bring cool water up and pull the oxygen rich water from the pond sides down toward the deep nozzle based on currents. This does not however take into accout water temps. and density and pressure . A very neat idea and concepts. Bill Cody posted on a DO crash event that described the shallow mixing effect. ewest

Because this is also causing a "lazy river" current effect, you may be able to get certain species of fish to reproduce where they would not normally in a pond setting.

Perhaps if visibility permits (more likely in cold weather when plankton is minimal), you could get a feel for what the circulation route under water is with some small neutral bouyancy objects. That prompts three questions:
1) What to use for neutral bouyancy markers
2) Would cold weather circulation be the same as in warm weather (need a good fluid dynamics guy)?
3) Why do I have such a hard time spelling neutral (nuetral, nutral, neiutral, neutrail, etc.)?

Theo,

The best "fluid dynamics guy" I know is my pop. He's a retired plumber and knows how to use a drain snake.

Good idea Bruce. I am using a similar setup with venturi injectors instead of the sweeper nozzle. They add air to the mix and (depending on how you size it) increase velocity. More expensive than the nozzles but very efficient and easy to set up.

Russ:

My Dad and Grandpa were both plumbers; if you have to use a snake, it is SEMI-fluid dynamics at best.

Here's a picture of my idea for horizontal aeration at work.

This idea looks like it will "push" surface vegetation somewhat to help in control. Bruce what kind of surface area in sq. ft. are you visibly moving. This could be the trick to help in duckweed ponds. The circular motion would repeatedly pull the duckweed thru the turbide water. Now you have me thinking on a new line! Standard aeration just pushes out a hole in the middle but never disturbs the duckweed. Great post Bruce.

On a calm morning I can see the small fish pellets moving on the entire surface of the pond. I would assume that duckweed would be disturbed quite a bit. I even wondered if the "lazy river" effect might disorient zooplankton and tiny invertebrates making it a little easier for the bluegill to forage.

All of the shrimp farmers in my neighborhood use a system to create the lazy river effect, most of their systems employ a series of paddles placed at intervuls around a square or rectangular pond, somewhere between 1/2 and 2 acres. They fertilize and feed to the point of pollution, but boy, do they turn out the shrimp. The more modern ones, line the pond and recirculate the water, filtering out the pollutients. The fish and crab farmers use the same systems. It appears that they are able to feed and fertilize to maximize growth. However, they are only working on one age group of animal and will cull the entire group at the end of the growing season.
But, Bruce I don't know if this would fit into your $150 a month allowance.
I would like to try a single species, male only maybe 2000 to start and see what would happen at the 10 year mark.
I can see why you changed your vote to Marianne, you poetic devil you.

Hi Bruce,In looking over your numbers can you tell me at what water depth you took a reading for your DO level after the 8gpm horizontal nozzle was installed.I also see that the 12 gpm well water being infused into the pond would be a high percentage of new water (approx 11%)I have never had a crash that took all the fish out that had a system with the ability to turn the column over at least twice per day unless the crash was due to chemistry.Even then the mortality was perhaps 25%. Do you know what your airlift device is turning. I ran the lifting ability numbers on a few models of diffusers and see that even at 1800 gpm with 1 cfm in 5 ft of water you would get "17" turns and I would think this would lift beyond any need.Even 85F water at 80% saturation would of provided 6 ppm of DO.Perhaps placing a diffuser in shallow water 3-5 ft and regulating the airflow would provide you with the same results.Im also wondering if in this small pond that even with horizontal aeration that a lot of the cooler temps in the 12ft areas wont be lost as any type circulation will effect the bottom water to a degree. Cooler water on the bottom is great in theory when is has a way to receive and retain DO and this is one of the sacrifices with any type of aeration system,you will warm the bottom.With bottom diffused aeration warming the bottom the most.Normally this is only of concern on the cold water fish types. My concern is always that the benefit of cooler water on the bottom for warm water fish may not outweigh the many benefits of a warmer more aerobic bottom.Your DO drop at night of 4.5 range is a level that I see as a minimum and is not difficult to acheive in most cases.Your dieoff of micro and macro life must of been massive and hopfully will not occur again in that fashion. If you wanted to centralize a diffuser but the depth is excessive consider floating the diffuser at different depths as they are easy to suspend.I highly encourage pond managers to know their cfm input at different depths (pressures) and what those turnover rates are at those different depths.Also to be considered is that what we find may work in a .09 acre pond will not in a pond twice that size by just simply doubling the inputs.This is what makes pond management the graet fun that it is.Ted

Here's an update on circular aeration pond.

Water from hydrant to two sweeper nozzles. Cost $45.



Circular aerator from Kasco with custom four-point mounting system that I had made from scrap aluminum and scrap fence post from local fencing company. Cost $650.



Four fence posts from fence company to mount circular aerator system when water level is full. The float can move up and down the post with water fluctuation. Cost $0



Dock made from lumber from Menards. Just the right size for single piece of treated 4 X 8 plywood. Cost $85



Bluegill condominium made from scrap 8" corrugated plastic drain tile and junk fence posts. Cost $0



Close up view of bluegill condomimium.



The inside of my shed in a rare clean moment.

Bruce :

Your surgery stitching skills are showing on the BG condo sewing. Not. :p I like the concept though. Does it work well ? What is the Diet Dew can for?

Perspective.

Bruce, please remember to reserve one BG Condo unit for Dudley. He likes to sublet various pond properties around the states.

Great photos! I especially like Condello's condos. When electrofishing lakes and ponds with bluegill, I always find the largest fish deep inside the most dense cover, especially places like beaver lodges. I would love to see how many fish will hang out in those pipes.
The biggest question looming in my mind is how many of us live on Diet Mountain Dew? Condello does, Theo does, and I do. Anyone else prefer diet dew as drink of choice?

I'm a straight Dew man myself. It really wires me too!

Bruce,

Does your Menards have the sleeves that you can bolt to the side of a 2 by 6 and slide your post down into it? I put my piers in during ice up this way. I slide the pier out on the ice than cut holes in the ice where the sleeves are bolted to the pier. Then I slide the galvanized posts into the sleeve into the water and to the bottom and drive them in. Next I jack the pier up above the ice and tighten the bolts on the sleeves. Works like a charm if you have good ice. Of course I'm waiting for the ice to come back so I can put more piers out on the other ponds! :rolleyes:

Diet Mountain Dew as a drink of choice? Why? Folgers going out of business? Is there a shortage of Budweiser? Is the agave plant threatened?

Diet Mountain Dew is for pussies.

Sunil, I'm just going to ignore that.

Question for the other DMD/MD drinkers: Do you drink enough Dew to make your teeth glow green in the dark?

Question for Bruce: What exactly has happened to my teeth to cause this?