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#31077 - 07/11/07 08:29 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Russ Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 1011
Loc: Ulster Park, NY
Bruce,

Based on your experience, what do you attribute the massive amount of biomass to; water quality, under water vegetation??

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#31078 - 07/11/07 08:41 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
 Quote:
Originally posted by Theo Gallus:
1,400 lbs / acre ! And I was thinking all those invertebrates were there because there was a sparse population. Adult BG/RES/YP must just not eat that stuff at all, compared to fry & fingerlings.

OK, here's something we usually don't talk about.

With no reproduction, we have no fry and fingerlings. Fry and fingerlings together if you weighed them, and had two hundred pounds, would increase to eight hundred pounds if a few weeks. Two hundred pounds of adult fish averaging, say, one pound each, might increase to about 210 pounds in a few weeks. Tiny fish are absolute machines when it comes to hammering little invertebrates. They have to be because a two gram fish needs to get to eight grams fast so he doesn't get eaten.

Consequently, my big fish aren't even bothering with little invertebrates. They're just waiting for the little invertebrates to get big so they can just slurp them up as they drift by.

You've seen overgrazed pasture. I think that's what most ponds are that have significant YOY numbers.

That's my current theory anyway.
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

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#31079 - 07/11/07 08:43 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
 Quote:
Originally posted by Russ:
Bruce,

Based on your experience, what do you attribute the massive amount of biomass to; water quality, under water vegetation??
Extremely good water quality.

High DO's all day long. Fresh water inflow. Great alkalinity. Great pH.
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

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#31080 - 07/11/07 09:01 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12394
Loc: Central Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Condello:
You've seen overgrazed pasture. I think that's what most ponds are that have significant YOY numbers.
Polled herefords have to be the laziest cattle in the world (that's why we have them - they're too lazy to make trouble).

Polled hereford Heaven is a field full of clover and timothy so high and thick that they can lay down and eat for half a day, moving only their necks and heads.

Hoover Pond is the panfish equivalent of hereford Heaven.

------------------------------------------------

What do the Smallies eat, Bruce?
_________________________
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling

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#31081 - 07/11/07 09:11 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4231
Loc: Raymond, NE
 Quote:
Shorty! Listen up! The redears that I located on camera were tucked in right under the island. I would have figured them for being on the bottom, but they looked like maybe, just maybe they were in a position to be grazing the bottom of the island. I'm planning on bringing my snorkeling gear and checking to see if there are snails under the island. I'll bet there are!
Very interesting, makes me wonder where the ones we stocked are right now.
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#31082 - 07/11/07 10:52 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
burgermeister Offline
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Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
quote Bruce:I'm planning on bringing my snorkeling gear and checking to see if there are snails under the island. I'll bet there are!

It's been nice knowing you big guy.
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#31083 - 07/11/07 10:52 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Shorty if they are not spawning then I bet in the grass eating snails , big inverts and small fish !!! \:\)
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#31084 - 07/11/07 11:13 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12394
Loc: Central Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by burgermeister:
quote Bruce:I'm planning on bringing my snorkeling gear and checking to see if there are snails under the island. I'll bet there are!

It's been nice knowing you big guy.
I don't recall even Jacques Cousteau having the nerve to take on Redears under water. Sharks, whales, elephant seals - no problem. But never a Redear.
_________________________
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling

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#31085 - 07/11/07 11:20 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4231
Loc: Raymond, NE
ewest, I have not been able to positively ID any RES in the large BG spawning colony yet although I seen a couple of that "might be" along the outer edges. This year we have a BG spawning colony that stretches 120 ft long right out in front of the house along the retaining wall. This colony is also directly adjacent to the horizontal aerators on the pond and all of the BG beds are getting a very light current and high DO levels going over them. It makes me wonder what kind of effect this will have on the fry that will hatch. \:\) As a side note, while looking for RES last week I saw a male BG actually flare his ear tabs out at another male that got too close to his bed, this is something I thought I would only see a male RES do. We have gazillions of snails again this year, I am also seeing lot's of baby snails in the 1-2 MM size range mixed in the coontail and milfoil. It is very possible that our RES are still slightly smaller than our average male BG sitting on beds right now and that is why I haven't seen any RES mixed in with them.
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#31086 - 07/11/07 04:11 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
GINORMOUS!

This is like capturing video of the Loch Ness monster. It even has that weird, grainy, otherworld like quality to it. I managed to take one redear, three yellow perch and about six bluegill this morning in an hour of messing around. This bluegill was significantly bigger than the others. I realize that there's no perspective, but this fish was at least 1/3 longer than one of the others I got on tape, and I know there aren't any fish smaller than 8 inches. So I'm guessing this one at around 11 inches long. Weight unknown.


_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

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#31087 - 07/11/07 04:41 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12394
Loc: Central Ohio
Until that BG swam by, I thought it was a Saturday night back in college (all gray and blurry and not much to remember).

Bruce:

Can you archive info on video hosting?
_________________________
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling

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#31088 - 07/11/07 04:46 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
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I'm not sure what you mean by that.
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

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#31089 - 07/11/07 05:14 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
ewest Offline
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Stop that bad boy at .03 and look at his eye checking you out and the large helmet he is wearing !!
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#31090 - 07/11/07 05:43 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
He needs a helmet that big because he's got a lot of brains!
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

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#31091 - 07/11/07 05:54 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
Russ Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 1011
Loc: Ulster Park, NY
Bruce,

Is this the pond with the Condello condo installed? If so, have you panned this area with the camera?

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#31092 - 07/11/07 05:58 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
Yes it is, and I have. ;\)

The only two places I could find fish was under the island and alongside the condo. Lots of activity around the structure.

Couldn't find anything, surprisingly, along the weedline or under the agitator, but there's a good chance I was spooking the fish.

The contrast wasn't that great because of the time of day, but can you see all the zooplankton drifting by just before the fish enters the field of view?
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

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#31093 - 07/11/07 07:32 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
Theo Gallus Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12394
Loc: Central Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Condello:
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
I mean the instructions on how you (or Shelby???) did it, especially the differences from posting photos.
_________________________
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling

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#31094 - 07/11/07 08:39 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
ewest Offline
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Bruce you need to get with DIED and post a how to take movies from an aqua-view (or similar unit) and post them to PB. Maybe Dwight can help.
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#31095 - 07/11/07 09:12 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
burgermeister Offline
Lunker

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Theo Gallus:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Condello:
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
I mean the instructions on how you (or Shelby???) did it, especially the differences from posting photos.
My thoughts exactly, Theo. Read...my daughter did all the puter stuff. I know nutting.
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#31096 - 07/12/07 12:37 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
OK, I get it.

I'll try to put something together later. It wasn't that hard. I just had to jump through fiery hoops.
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

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#31097 - 07/12/07 07:00 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by ewest:
Stop that bad boy at .03 and look at his eye checking you out and the large helmet he is wearing !!
I personally think it looks more like a giant whale suddenly coming through, and the sound track to jaws would be very appropriate!

Wait until I start getting those Condello bluegills in that size range in my crystal clear water! :p
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#31098 - 07/14/07 04:51 PM Re: Horizontal aeration
ewest Offline
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Here you go Shorty - BG with flared gills.


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#31099 - 08/16/07 10:12 AM Re: Horizontal aeration
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4231
Loc: Raymond, NE
ttt - for "the pond girl".
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#94775 - 08/19/07 02:56 PM Re: Horizontal aeration [Re: Bruce Condello]
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
I've recently discovered that horizontal aeration, plus surface agitation can still leave a little to be desired.

Surface temperatures last week reached 88.5 degrees, and the perch started to act strangely. Yellow perch were observed swimming lazily around the periphery of the pond, and could be caught by hand--never a good sign.

There was obviously a massive die-off of algae and rooted vegetation, so the water had kind of a brownish, smelly characteristic.

I decided that I should run a transfer pump from the bottom of the water column. The pump pulls 250 gpm and the pond was 3/4 empty overnight. Interestingly, the water that was exiting the pond was much darker and much smellier than the pond seemed itself.

I'm not sure about the spelling, but the exiting water smells like "silage?".

We ran a seine and encountered some huge bluegill, and also some still healthy yellow perch. They didn't seem too bothered by the poor water quality, not nearly as much as me anyway. I don't know what to do really, but I'm seriously considering adding a traditional airlift system so the the nutrients don't end up all near the bottom of the pond.
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

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#94783 - 08/19/07 04:39 PM Re: Horizontal aeration [Re: Bruce Condello]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
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Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 3261
Loc: el dorado ca
 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
I've recently discovered that horizontal aeration, plus surface agitation can still leave a little to be desired.....................Surface temperatures last week reached 88.5 degrees...........I don't know what to do really, but I'm seriously considering adding a traditional airlift system so the the nutrients don't end up all near the bottom of the pond.


bruce, i realize our pond environments are very different, but i have become a huge fan of the traditional airlift system based on the incredibly good water quality it has given me. recall i have no supplemental water. the rainy season input just sits there all summer, stagnating and slowly vanishing. last year w/ virtually no aeration i had excessive weed growth in clear water, and silage like build up on the bottom (as the water receded i could dig into newly exposed dirt and get the same silage smell you describe).

i am down over 5 feet right now, but still have about 10 feet in the deep end. the bottom aeration has definitely provided a refuge for fish throughout the entire water column, helped to promote and hold a beautiful olive green plankton bloom all summer, reduced the visibility and excessive weed growth, and (as water recedes this year) the newly exposed dirt does not smell at all.

i run aeration from 1030 pm to 0730 am when air temps are the coolest. during the day, i let the phytoplankton take over. this has kept the overall pond water temps down from last year as well. despite several 100 degree days, the surface temps are still in the low 80's.
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