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#9238 04/15/07 08:24 PM
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One of my property lines runs for 750 feet down the center of a trout stream. The stream is about 15 feet wide and 2 feet deep in the center. About 1 mile upstream the state stocks trout every year but they seem to pass thru my section and never linger. The stretch is relatively straight running through dense woodland in the bottom of a valley. The stream bed is made up of stone, ranging from small, almost gravel up to 24" rounded flat shale. Obviously the Fish and Boat Commission would not be happy if I had a machine do some streambed modification in the streambed, but I am allowed to position large bolders (of which I have no shortage) in the stream. Any suggestions as to how I could enhance the streambed to encourage some of the trout to call my portion of the stream home?


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#9239 04/15/07 08:29 PM
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Mike Mitchell is an amazing expert in that regard. He was at the conference and spoke specifically to that issue.

You should check your last three or four issues of Pond Boss and I think maybe you can find his email address, and I'll bet he'd be helpful. If you can't find it right off PM me and I'll dig it up.


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#9240 04/15/07 09:19 PM
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Mike's presentation at the conference was amazing. He kept me on the edge of my seat, even though the subject matter was far outside my (past, present, and future) experience.

IIRC, Mike's methods of restoring washed/dredged out mountain streams by adding pools, rapids, eddies, and several other features I don't have words for can increase available fish habitat by a factor of 10 or more.

The bad news is, it's expensive (apx. $1M per mile). But there's probably some things you could do on your own that would help a lot for less $.


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#9241 04/16/07 12:28 PM
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1 M a mile! I was a chemist not a dentist! I re-read Mike Mitchell's articles in the last 2 Pond Bosses and I'll be counting the days until the next segment comes out. In the meantime I'll be plotting out the channel centers and having some large boulders dropped off alongside the stream. I had read in Tim Matson's original book on ponds about a stream enhancement he called a "digger pond" has anyone had any experience with this type of stream enhancement? Having a stocked pond is an amazing experience but having a large stream with good habitat is also pretty cool. New fish and inverts just keep showing up. Now the goal is to make them stay. (until I can catch and eat them of course!)


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#9242 04/16/07 08:48 PM
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Check out your state DNR website. They have some grant programs that offer matching funds for "to conserve and enhance river resources." So that means you just have to come up with 1/2 M a mile! \:\)
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/brc/rivers/riversconservation/

#9243 04/17/07 01:29 PM
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Mike is currently writing a series of article about stream ecology. I am confident that he will eventually cover location and placement of structure in stream. Stay tuned to future articles in PBoss mag. It would be a very good idea for you to contact him about your specific stream features and this may help him plan what he puts in his upcoming articles. Mike's experiences with supplimentally, feeding stream fish pellets may also be applicable to your strech of stream once you get some proper fish holding structures established.

Please keep us advised on your progress with this project. If you take some photos or your techniques and results. It would make a very good article for PBoss mag. I am interested to read about your project -pros and cons.


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#9244 04/17/07 01:54 PM
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PaPond,

Not to down play Mike one bit but there are also some good books out there on stream improvement. I believe I saw them on one of the online bookstores. Amazon?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#9245 04/17/07 01:58 PM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by PaPond:
I had read in Tim Matson's original book on ponds about a stream enhancement he called a "digger pond" has anyone had any experience with this type of stream enhancement?
Isn't that simply creating a plunge which gouges out a pool just below it? I believe it was shown as a few logs on top of each other staked in place?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#9246 04/17/07 02:09 PM
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Cecil, yes the digger pond is formed by running logs across the stream, stabilizing with wire (chain link) and gravels and stones , and forcing the flow through a notch in the log. The idea is for the flow to dig its own pool and also maintain it with flow. I would also assume this can be done with proper placement of boulders to create the same flow conditions.
Bill, I will doccument the progress of the stream enhancement and also correspond with Mike Mitchell. As for supplemental feeding, I can't keep a feeder by my pond which is alongside my house, the bears have made off with 2 of them, so I doubt I would have any luck in the woods away from the house.


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#9247 04/17/07 08:37 PM
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Pa, Is hand feeding an option? I am sure that Mike has dealt with the bear problem also. Maybe he has a couple ideas for you. Ask.


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#9248 04/17/07 10:09 PM
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Bill if I recall Mike said that they did hand feed only using four wheelers and hired labor. Seems like they fed several times a day when no fisherman were present. He also said how much they fed but I don't recall the amount. Mike would be glad to talk to you Pa. He is a great guy with a lot of answers.
















#9249 04/18/07 07:42 PM
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I sent an e-mail to Mike Mitchell last night and this morning there was a reply. From his response I realized stream habitat projects are quite a bit more intricate than sinking a habitat I built in the garage in the pond. I realized that as the "Bosses" of our own ponds we tend to do what we want, tinker, experiment, and of course occasionally screw up. Well the same logic applied to a stream has implications both upstream and downstream of the waters I'm particularly interested in. There is a greated degree of responsibility. He advised me to walk upstream and downstream of my section of the stream for about 2 miles to get a better understanding of the stream and see the components of the stream that the trout see. This will help give me a perspective of what the trout need. As he put it, for all we know my reach may be a critical spawning or juvenile rearing area, or possibly important microinvertibrate habitat. If I add a pool to try and encourage the trout to stay it may be damaging to the overall fishery. Messing with a stream comes with a big responsibility. Before I do anything I have to read and learn and then possibly seek professional help. (It's not so simple a cave man can do it!)


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#9250 04/18/07 08:22 PM
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Two things: Mike told me they feed once a day and as far as effecting the stream I can respect that. However how much of your stream is dependent on natural reproduction (I seem to remember you saying it was planted by the state) and you do realize streams change from time to time when there are floods anyway. Not disagreeing with what Mike says as he has probably forgotten more than I would ever know. Just a few thoughts.

I also believe at least one of his major projects dealt with triploids, which as we all know don't reproduce.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#9251 04/18/07 10:26 PM
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I will try feeding daily by hand, I have to decide the best places to feed to keep the food from running downstream too fast. I did notice one eddy area when I walked the stream today. Although the stream is stocked by the state the biologist at the local state hatchery told me there are some trout which survive to breed. they sample the streams they stock throughout the year. The stream section I border on provides them no access so the biologist is referring to other locations in the stream system. Any recommendations for reading material concerning stream ecology would be appreciated.


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#9252 04/18/07 11:23 PM
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PaPond,

Some of the books I own on the subject include:

Hunter, Christopher J. Better Trout Habitat: a Guide to Stream Restoration and Management.
Washington D.C.: Island Press, 1991.

Cushing, Colbert E. and J. David Allen. Streams: Their Ecology and Life.
Hong Kong: Academic Press, 2001.

Seymour, Richard. Fishery Management and Keepery.
London: Charles Knight & Co. Ltd, 1970.

Platts, Carter. Trout Streams.
London: The Harmsworth Press Ltd, 1977(?).

Needham, Paul R. Trout Streams: Conditions that Determine their Productivity snd Suggestions for Stream and Lake Management.
Ithaca, New York: Comstock Publishing Company, Inc. 1938.

Mullan, James W. Trout Stream Management in Massachusetts
Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Game.

Better Trout Habitat is probably my favorite of the above, although I have found all of them to be helpful. If you cannot find these locally you should be able to find them and other similar books on Abebooks.com, Amazon or any of the other on-line book sellers. I am looking forward to Mr. Mitchell's upcoming articles. Good luck with your project.

#9253 04/20/07 04:37 PM
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PaPond,

I don't mean to hijack this topic but I've got a question for you concerning water testing that goes back to this thread:

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000039#000006

Would you care to share with us what aquarium test kit you use to test your ponds?

Russ

#9254 04/21/07 09:36 AM
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i assume it is brookies and rainbows in this creek. right? i have fished lots of little trout streams across this nation. from the little streams of wisconsin that flow into lake superioir to the nepauge in conneticut all the way to little colorado mountain streams. the most constant place to catch trout is in the area where the streams are forced into pools where there is a calm area and the edge of the pool has a whirlpool like area. these can easily be created by placeing a large boulder in the creeks. each of these boulders holds 1 or 2 trout. anyone ever fished the thompson river in colorado? amazing how many fish you can catch out of a small area. just remember those trout arent gonna be as large as the pond tout or the ones from larger rivers, but they taste good and are fun to catch


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#9255 04/22/07 10:50 AM
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Russ,
The best test kits for aquarium analysis that I have found (in reguard to reproduceability of results) are the LaMotte kits. I have since switched from individual test kits to the LaMotte aquaculture kit AQ-2 which has yielded consistent results for me. I got the kit from Aquatic Eco Systems.


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#9256 04/22/07 11:39 AM
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Thank you sir.


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