Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations coyotes killing livestock

I know there is a bunch of intelligent people that read this site so I thought I would ask a non-pond question. I have been having trouble with coyote's killing my Reg. Boer goats. Since July 4 I have lost 4 of them to the coyotes. (This is starting to get expensive to me about $200 each) They have even killed one of my neighbors Cutting horse colts which is big $$$$ (they came home in the middle of it). I feel that we have had a pack of just plain killers move in. I keep the goats in a High tinsel fence with Hot wires 6" apart. My neighbors and I have declared war on them but have only been able to kill 1 of them. This is the first time that we have had trouble with them in 2 years that I have lived here. Just a note these coyotes are not scared of horses or Jacka$$'s. My question is do any of you have a secret in killing them? Any thoughts on how to handle this? I have the attitude “ Kill them all and let God sort them out”. I have thought about going fishing for them by hanging treble hooks from trees with bait on them. (See how I worked fishing into this) What would you use for bait?

One of the guys on our deer lease has a Great Pyrenes(sp.) dog in with his goats to protect them. As far as I know he has never lost a goat.

GET YOUR SELF A COUPLE OF DONKYS THEY WILL KILL THE CYOTES.
GOOD LUCK....

Tim, the answer to your coyote question is Great Pyrenees livestock guard dogs.

My son has two for his Boer goat herd and has never lost a single one.
Lots of coyotes and bobcats in area.
They raise the puppies with the goats – they are not pets.
I love to watch them take the goats to pasture in the morning and bring them to the pens at evening time - natural herding instinct.

The photo doesn’t do them justice – they are BIG dogs.




Here's a pond picture to keep this thread pond related. Goats will manicure pond edges and eat water primrose to boot.

Finally something I know a little about..yahooo
Tim not to insult you, but are you sure it was C that made the kills? Generaly "farm dogs" that are left free roaming, will cause more damage to wildlife than C will. C are usually seen around kills and are often blamed. That said, if they are after your live stock, the best thing you can do is contact your County Commissioner and find out about getting a county or state trapper in there, they will use cyanide bait stations, snares ,leghold traps and are very adapt at catching yotes. Reason..yotes are probably smarter than most people you will meet as far as survival goes and are extremely intelligent and adapt very fast to attempts to get them, say you call one in and miss the shot, odds are he won't come to another call, or if he does you won't see him. I would try a trapper since you have $$ at stake, a good trapper that will take care of business. Great P dogs are better than a donkey IMO if you go that route. I have taken around a 1,000 yotes and they can be a PIB. I bet you have one yote that will teach it's off spring that your goats are easy.
Good Luck

Tim as aforementioned, thye use a couple of donkeys around our parts...

I just emailed our resident wildlife expert and trapper, Dan VanSchaik to chime in on this one. He will be able to help, too.

around my area the ranchers handle them themselves by trapping and (then) shooting. for "residential" livestock problems, the county will send a trapper in. about three years ago the county mounty was called to the area, he was VERY effective, and it has taken about three years to notice a significant comeback for the local yotes. as others said, dogs work great to keep the herd safe, but if you want them dead expert trapping is probably best.

YOU HAVE TO CARE FOR THE DOGS THE DONKEYS WILL CARE FOR THEM SELFS................

There is an old saying that goes like this: When man is gone from the face of this earth, there will still be coyotes and cockroaches...
Dogs have been protecting sheep (herds) for hundreds of years and do a pretty awesome job. That is one answer to the probelm. Government intervention, traps and/or poison, is INDESCRIMINANT. Experience has taught me that I'd only use this as a very last resort. Plus, no government 'program' has ever eliminated a coyote or couger problem. They only eliminate a few and scare the rest away until a more opportunistic time. The coyotes WILL be back...
My qualification in these thoughts is, I trapped for a (winter) living for many years and was associated with both government trappers and gov programs concerning sheep ranches. Also, my neighbors currently (try to) raise sheep, and coyotes have pretty much ruined their operation. Yes, coyotes attack live sheep and have even attacked the neighbor's Austrailian Shepard that 'protects' them, hence BIG dogs for that end of the operation.
I use to think along the lines of "night-vission" devices to combat the problem, but no one can be that vigilant, as coyotes attack at both day and night.
I, Myself, and Oregon DF+W, agree that electric fencing is the best deterant. If the coyotes are getting through what you already have in place, INCREASE the amount of wire by decreasing the spaces inbetween. I use 4' of 'no-climb' kennel wire on the bottom topped with another 4 feet of electified wire (6" spacing) for a total of 8' feet in heigth. Any less and you are asking for failure.
We also have coons and skunks, and that requires another 2 or 3 strands of electified wire at the bottom, inside and outside of the perimeter, with deligent routine weed-eating, as a single strand of grass can ground out, or even start a fire in the dry season.
This approach is relatively expensive, but not as expensive as both the loss of livestock and the broken hearts you suffer over the years when you have had to put down a prize animal that is laying there half-butchered by a coyote or couger attack.
This system will work against coyotes, couger, deer and the smaller vermin that would like to at least come in for free ducks, chickens, eggs and whatever else is on their minds. No one has ever lost an animal that has a good, well maintained perimeter wire system in place, but it still takes vigilance and up-keep or the preditors will find a way around or under it, some way, some how...

Tim, using dogs, donkeys, fencing tricks, weed control, etc to protect your livestock is like putting armed guards around the next World Trade Centers to stop terrorism. You must attack the predator problem at its SOURCE. Doesn't matter whether its feral hogs, wild dogs or coyotes you need to get an experienced trapper to evaluate the kills and identify the problem animal...then hit them where they live, before they get to your pens. Traps work while you sleep and are proven to be the most effective ongoing conrol known to property management. Forget the search for the one-shot remedies and find a great local trapper who will stay with you. More help if you want when I get home tomorrow.
Dan VS

Use the treble hook approach with a chicken. it works wonders

Oregon Dept of Fish and Wildlife would disagree that fencing would be classified as a "trick" as it is the only recommended and highly successful deterant practiced in the state. I will state this again: traps catch and MAIM non-target animals Indiscriminately and only (temporarily) work if you life in an extremely rural area. "To hell with the neighbor's dogs if they are running lose" will make more enemies than it is worth and possibly buy you a law suit. If you ever figure out how to find out where the coyotes "live", please let the rest of the world how you did it.

WHERE DID POND BOSS GO THIS IS OUT OF HAND............

I once caught a coyote fishing with a top bait in my pond,,,,,

I'm not an expert but the best I ever met used noose snares. Identify where they are coming under the fence and start there. Yep, you're gonna catch somebodys puppy dog. But that may just end your "coyote" problem.

I wish we had more up here where I'm at. Then I might see less of those damn stray cats! Killed three one year only to have three take their place the following year. The only reason I was offing them was they would tease the dog and get her to chase them -- right into the highway. I'm tired of killing them though.

I disagree that it's out of hand. Just like with managing ponds, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Very interesting, keep it up. When we need to kill the thread, I'll call Brettski in. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

Coincidentally I've got a female cat in heat somewhere out there in the dark tonight. Had to let the dog out on the deck to keep her from waking up the wife with her barking. ^%$#@## cats!

Guys, Thanks for all the great responses. Just a quick update, another one dead yesterday during 10 am and 5 pm in broad daylight. We had hay cut lying in the field so we had to leave the house to go bail hay. I found one dead in the pasture about 50 feet from the house with the guts eaten out and one severely wounded in the shallow end of the pond they had bitten her in the throat. I believe she dove in the pond to save her life. I left the dead goat laying just where they killed her for my night hunt bait. All I had to do is just site on my back porch and wait. After doctoring the goat I came in the house and ate supper for about 30-45 minutes around 8:30 pm, during supper they came in to the dead goat. When supper was over I opened the door and shine the light at the dead goat and she was not there. I shined the light around and about 150 feet from the house I see red eyes shining back at me. I shot between the eyes and got another one. I drug the goat back to the 50 foot spot and got a lariat rope and tied her to a cedar tree so they could not drag her off again. I waited again until 1 am and no more Coyotes showed back up so I went to bed. My wife got up at 3 am and looked at her and she still had not been touched, But at 5 am when she got back up there was 11 or 12 of them eating her. My wife came and got me from bed but they where gone when I got out there. Daylight came and I went out there and there was nothing left but the head and skeleton so I buried the goat and the dead coyote. I have always kept the goat locked up at night and during the day I have them in a pasture with 11 electrified wires (I counted them today) spaced 6 inches apart starting 6 inches off the ground. My wife spoke too one of my neighbors this morning and he said that he got up to 7 dead chickens this morning also.

Cecil, I have no less than 20 wild cats that live around here and they don't seem to mess with them. I say this because I never find any dead cats but I may be wrong.

Tim, with this kind of problem, I would definitely get an experienced trapper ASAP. You and the neighbor are on their circuit for an easy meal.

I would also get the big white dogs. They are real Pro's when it comes to coyotes. I am aware of guys that use them and don't consider them as pets. They bring food on a daily basis, leave it for them, and come back the next day. They say that this keeps them more attuned to the goats than their human masters.

Gotta agree with Burger, this is not an inappropriate post in our world. Yeah, it might be more appropriate under "Family Talk" but I don't see a problem.

Cats are usually pretty high on their menu but they are opportunists. They will take the easy stuff first.

Dan VS, I fully understand the SOURCE of the coyote problem and traps are “sometimes” a temporary solution to a long term problem, especially for Tim’s problem.

Coyotes live in the cities, in the country and everywhere in between.
Their reproduction is controlled by the amount of forage available, whether from city garbage cans, pet food containers, household pets, or numbers of rabbits and small critters avalable .

I live in the city with a creek in my backyard, and coyotes range up and down the creek – they don’t “live” in one area.
Several pets have been killed and eaten in peoples’s back yards.
We have seen them numerous times.
The city has a “professional trapper” that sets “noose” traps along the creek and has been unable to control them.

As mentioned in my earlier post, my son raises Boer goats in a coyote and bobcat ridden rural area.
He has two Great Pyrenees livestock guard dogs with a herd of about 50 goats.
He has NEVER lost a goat.

Tim, sorry a bout your loss.
I would surely check into the BIG dogs for a long-term solution.

Tim, sorry if it seemed like I was criticizing, but coyotes serve a purpose in nature. As Cecil pointed out they do help control the populations of rodents, coons, cats, rabbits, etc. I don't have a problem with hunting or trapping, but I don't think you'll ever be able to kill enough coyotes to stop the problem.

Using dogs or donkeys seems like a good approach, but if you don't want to do that for some reason there's still something you can try.

Taste aversion has some advantages over other methods. Taste aversion happens when an animal eats something and shortly after gets sick. Vets use apomorphine for this purpose when training puppies not to chew on shoes etc. It's tasteless and odorless but will cause the animal to vomit after eating it.

If you were to inject apomorphine into the carcass of a freshly killed goat, the coyotes would ingest it and then get sick. They will learn that goat isn't good to eat. The biggest advantage with this method is that the coyotes will teach their young to avoid that type of prey also.

You can't buy or use apomorphine yourself, but maybe you could work with a veterinarin.

I also live in the city but commute to my "home away from home" on weekends.

I also live by a creek. No shortage of coyotes, rabbits, coons, tree rats (squirrels), feral hogs, skunks, possums, armadillos, snakes, etc.

A friend of mine rented a pasture for grazing cattle. Using nooses, he eliminated over 100 coyotes and dogs in the first year.

I would think that 6 inch electric fences would be a deterrant. However, they are getting to Tim.