Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations My Big Project...

A quick update.

I was out yesterday talking to a local pond consultant I'm thinking about using (to handle things like chemical treatments, electro-survey, order some of the smaller batch stuff I'll need etc). Anyway, we talked about the idea of using cage grow outs in pond #1 to put fish into #2 & #3 and how that would work and what it would mean to my overall plan.

Long story short, we have identified a few places to dig some small staging ponds. These will built to be easy to drain...I will have 1 for LMB and 1 for HBG. So, that means I get to use pond #1 as a regular fish pond....so I gotta figure out what species I want to try and an overall management plan.

Any suggestions? I'd love to get creative and do something a bit unusual...just don't know what.

I hope to take the camera up to my place this weekend and get some better pictures of everything that's going on.

I've been really hoping to see more people try the all female LMB option. With it you could add RES and I don't think they would reproduce enough to overrun the pond. In the end, many of the female LMB and RES of either sex would be using pellets. Another possibility that I've always wanted to see in a small pond would be incorporating all female black crappie. If you had a source for adults it's easy to pick out the egg-laden females in early spring. If you mixed those with both sex RES or fathead minnows you could possibly grow a three pound crappie. Feeding the fatheads over a "crappie hinding structure" could mean doom for the stupid pellet eating fatheads.

There are lots of different approaches discussed here. They all start with the water. Can you provide water quality info like yearly temp ranges , alkalinity , hardness , depth , fertility (visibilities) ,DO's , aeration or flow , depths, etc, ?

Eric,

I dont have details on my water at this point such as hardness and alkalinity...The pond was bottom was limed and filled and I have to sterilize now because some trash fish came in during the filling.

The flow through will dry up in the heat of summer but all in all this pond has good runoff and should not need any supplemental water from the creek.

I plan to aerate it with a Vertex Airstation aeration system.

As for depth - I'm about 10ft on average - 18 ft at the dam and a shallow end shelf about 3ft.

Total size is about 3 acres.

All female LMB would be nice!! Would you guys feel comfortable trusting a purchase of all females or would you grow them out yourself and move them in the spring when they can be sexed?

What would you like for that pond to be? I would sure want to be sure that they were all females. I would not trust sexing small LMB. Good thing is you have time to develop the idea and establish the forage base first.

I'm really still very open on ideas for this pond. I was already planning #2 as a trophy BG fishery and #3 for trophy bass (although not an all female).

I would like to figure out something interesting and different....The only thing with the all female LMB idea is the choice of where to put my big girls (ie in the trophy LMB pond that has males or put them in the all girls school).

While it is common place on this board, I have never seen a pond in my area with HSB. Since there is no reproduction and they will eat pellets, I am considering an all HSB pond and just loading them up and keeping 100% caught in the summer...then re-stock each fall the number of fish harvested...I could keep it fun on ultralights and light fly rods....just a thought.

I want to keep my forage budget focused on the trophy LMB pond too...so having pellets as the primary food source in my BG pond and my HSB would allow me to focus my forage efforts better.

I dunno....I've got until October to decide...I'm still open to any unique ideas you guys may have.

The pond in question (#1) is the one in the photos above (one from up on a hill above it and the other from the dam...if you look hard at the one taken from the dam, you can see me standing on the dock).

Jeff, I like your idea of an all HSB pond.
I like non-reproductive species.
Ditto for same sex BG and LMB pond.

Have I missed where your ponds are located?
I have gained much HSB and CNBG experience and knowledge from my PB forum friends that I will be happy to share.
Send a PM if if you wish?

George Glazener

HSB are a very versatile fish. I like your thinking. They can be placed in a pond, fed, and then selectively harvested so that the fittest get to stay in. It's worked very well for me.

How about conditioning on HSB (hook-shy I mean)?

Is it better or worse than LMB?

Also - I assume even though they like cooler water that there is still a temp where they stop feeding?

I personally don't see the HSB as a fish that you have to be concerned as much about conditioning. If I vary my offerings, they continue to hit aggressively.

My HSB hit pellets at first light even when the water temps exceed 85, but I don't fish for them this time of year because if the water is too hot the HSB will fight to the death.

I prefer to fish for them when the water temps are between 55 and 75.

They will take pellets for sure down to 54 degrees on my farm, but sometimes down into the upper 40's, especially if the water is warming.

If you enjoy "fishing", you'll prefer LMB.
I you like "catching" , HSB wins hands down.
As Bruce says, vary the offering if you prefer - or- stop feding for a day or so - they'll hit anything you throw at them.

They will out-fight LMB several times over...

Jeff, I caught my first LMB more than 75 years ago and fished for them until I discovered striped bass.
I fished for striped bass for more that 20 years on Lake Texoma, sometimes as many as 100+ days a year.
Stripers ruined me for fishing for LMB.

When we built “our” ponds my goal was HSB, and Bruce has helped me achieve this goal – he’s the expert.

Knowing what I know today about the over-population and hook shy issues of LMB, I would not stock them at all.
I am not endowed with the patience that you and ML have, to fish on a limited or restrictive basis.

My opinion only

Like every species of fish used in ponds HSB are a tool to be used to get to your pond goals. Like all tools no fish species is right for all occasions. Check out these 2 prior threads on HSB. The first has a link to a very detailed study of HSB in N. C. ponds the second is George's composite thread on HSB with links to tons of info from people with experience with them in ponds.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000450 N. C. State HSB study plus comments

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=20&t=003579 George's composite HSB thread with links

George, I have caught many-o-stripers here in SC. We have several very large lakes that are stocked with Stripers and I grew up catching them with my father on everything from live & cut bait to artificials. I love stripers, but to put down LMB....that's pretty hard core.

I'm starting to really like this idea. 100% HSB - keep a log of my take from the hot months and restock each fall.

So where is the "mortality" line for HSB? Meaning, what is the water temp where say more than 10% of released fish will die?

What size Aquamax pellet are you guys feeding HSB?

I need to read these links Eric posted...perhaps some of my answers are in those links.

There are factors beside temperature. Primarily how long you play the fish and how long you keep him out of the water.

If you use appropriately sized line--say 8 lb test for a 4 pound fish, you can haul him in a little quicker. If you are using 4 lb for the same fish you are much more likely to kill him.

HSB tend to get what appears to be "cramps" if you catch them in water that's upper 70's or low 80's and play them too long.

I'd suggest you don't fish for them at all with hooks when water temps are above 80 F. A great game to play in hot water is to fish for them in the morning with topwaters. They will absolutely EXPLODE on a topwater in the a.m. and sometimes you'll get to play the fish for a few seconds. Otherwise when the water is cooler conventional angling methods are acceptable if you get the fish in within reason.

One time I was fishing for big HSB with topwaters. The fish were averaging 5 lbs. After catching a bunch of fish this size I got another hit, set the hook, and proceeded to skim a 5 lb largemouth across the top of the water. I was so used to playing HSB that the poor LMB didn't stand a chance. Actually this has happened a couple of times.

I'll admit that LMB are a blast to catch. In some ways they are God's perfect fish. But in the age old "pound-for-pound" argument not many freshwater fish that I've caught compare to the HSB.

Now keep in mind, there's no reason you can't fish for HSB in the heat of the summer, you just may need to allow for mortalities in the 20% range on a hot summer evening with water temps in the upper 80's.

I feed Aquamax 600, but I think they'd readily take the newer largemouth bass size pellet. Here's a picture of a HSB that I raised in my 1.25 acre pond.

Bruce,

Your techniques have turned my little half-acre pond into a fishermen's heaven for big bluegill.

But, that fish is so incredible, I'm thinking that I need to go rent a dozer in the morning to expand my pond in all directions so it will better suit HSB.

Thanks,
Ken G.

Thanks, Ken.

I love this site so much, but it's especially nice if I think I was able to assist someone a little bit.

I get a lot more than I give on Pond Boss. That's for sure. I caught that HSB on a flyrod, so it's not hard to see why I recommend them for ponds when it's appropriate. I'd say on average, the quality HSB are easier to catch than the quality BG, but that's part of the BG mystique for me. My bluegill are extremely wary, and if I didn't see a few feeding lately I'd wonder if I still have them. Makes me want to run a seine.

Jeff, I sure don’t want to offend any LMB fans out there, but I have fished too many ponds with stunted overcrowded LMB, and too many public reservoirs with hook shy fish – and that includes Lake Fork in Texas.

I like the challenge of catching fish – more so than managing ponds.
HSB will out fight a striped bass hands down.

I feed AQMX 600.

Check out the links Eric posted – interesting read...

I agree with George about not wanting to offend LMB fans. I'm really sincere when I say they're God's perfect fish. Some of their characteristics are perfectly suited for angling enthusiasts.

It's just that the HSB fight SOOO hard, I can't help but rave about them.

If you want HSB I would suggest that you have some fish forage in the pond also. I know that pellets will work but I think they do better if they get some actual fish in their diet especially before it turns cold. I draw this conclusion from studies on the biology of HSB and on pellet composition.

Jeff there is a lot in those links including the answers to your questions.

Yeah - I didn't finish all the links until this morning...was a lot to digest...but lots of answers.

I think I'm sold. I'll study on it a bit more and consider some other options...but I think #1 needs to become the best (and perhaps only) private HSB fishery in my area.

Also - that is a great fish Bruce.

I would have had some trouble identifying that one as a hybrid...it didn't have the really distinct "binary" pattern of the HSB...lines looked more like a striper. It had the thicker body, but that's about all I would have to go on.

Still - an AWESOME looking fish. What was length & weight on that one?

In our lakes here we have Stripers and a few Whites...but very few hybrids (at least mature ones that I have seen).

Pond #3 (to be the trophy bass pond) was cored this morning. I am told that all went well...I will try to get out one day this week and snap a few pics.

I have seen these photography schemes used before to make people look skinnier in their photos but I didn't think Dr. Condello would stoop to making his fish look bigger.

That's not the first time Diet Mountain Dew has shot out of my nose, but it is the farthest it's ever gone.