Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations hook shy

I've seen fish become skittish many times. You catch 1 or 2, and the rest are on high alert the rest of the day. May as well move on to another spot!

When bream are on the beds and acting broody and aggressive, they don't seem to care that they are getting picked off 1 by 1. When they are simply foraging around the banks, it's an entirely different matter.

I think it arises from the genetic traits in all fish. The genetic traits are hard wired for control/prominence differently at different times. One of those is the stress indicator chemical noted above . At different times , reproduction comes first , at other times feeding , the flight (safety) response at other times, aggressiveness , caution , and on. When conditions are right for feeding (low stress) and all of the sudden one fish is hooked ,dragged around , lifted out of the water and put back in ,during that process it releases a stress indicator (warning signal) the others pick up on. They react when the signal is strong enough and it overrides the feeding signal and they stop feeding for a while. Same for spawning priority overriding the stress chemical during the BG spawn. Spawning ranks higher at that time and you can catch a bunch off the beds. But if you let them see you then the flight response is greater and they will move off the nests for protection. Because of genetic variation between different species and between different individual fish in a population of one specie you get different levels of traits and thus different results.

This also includes "dumb" fish vs. "smart" fish. Over time the dumb ones have a tendency to get harvested at higher rates leaving the smarter fish in the gene pool to reproduce.

Good point Shorty !! Also note that those just happen to be the most aggressive fish at the time also. That was also noted in the TPW 16 yr. LMB study (no angling) but many of the aggressive fish early ended up as meals for larger fish.

I observe this every year in Northern Michigan - hook shy on the big public lakes, ravenous on small back woods ponds.

Somehow, I find myself singing that old song "I Like 'Em Big and Stupid".

Maybe genetic traits (dumb fish/smart fish) are a factor, but I doubt that they're a major one.

The way I see it nature only rewards the "smart" fish to a point. A fish that is genetically, or even environmentally oriented to be overly cautious will not grow as big, or reproduce as much. I would also think that a hungry fish is "dumber" than a well fed fish.

I wonder if "smartness" comes into play more with the angler instead of the fish. There have been several suggestions already in this thread that indicate ways to keep catching pond fish. Maybe human actions other than the bait presented are more important. If you take away a fishes conditioning and genetic traits, you still have an animal that is in an "eat or be eaten" situation. The fish that are inclined to be reckless are probably what we refer to as forage. The fish that survive to decent size are all going to be wary to a large degree.

The fish in Mr. H's big pond, where I'm collecting WM, have apparently gotten less hook shy since I read this thread. Normally when I fish there I get a good number of strikes at first and land one or two fish. My habit was to assume that I'd found some good structure, or that the conditions had brought the fish to that spot. I'd keep fishing in that area of the pond, but typically the action would slow down. Dang hook shy fish!

After reading some posts above I went to the pond yesterday evening and started out with a few fish hitting right away. After landing them I walked down the bank about 100 feet and tried again and caught more fish. Then, every time I caught a fish I would move from that part of the pond. Miraculously my behavior must have hypnotized the fish into losing their "hook shyness".

GW, Ewest brought a paper to a meeting showing that only 1/2 of LMB ever bite a hook. Obviously a 10 lb. one finally makes a mistake. The interesting thing was that the hook shy ones offspring also were hook shy. And, their offspring were hook shy. As I recall, it was a University study. It does appear to be a major factor.

Heck, I've often thought that fish were smarter than me.

On those wm you should try superworms from petco. about $4 gets you lie 50 and no fish can resist them. I have been catching sunfish and bass on them so I know wm will like'm.

GW,

Way to go!! Now you are fishing, instead of just catching

Sometimes I prefer to use the term "selective" instead of "smart". A fish's intelligence is probably a measure of many of factors than just it's tendency to be selective.

I agree that a fish could be selective to a fault. At some point, that moments hesitation means you don't get fed.

The ultimate pond would be to have it full of fish with ample forage, but the tendency to be less selective. I'm working on that right now, without a lot of success. The one exception is my bluegill that I'm selecting for rapid growth. They're not particularly selective right now, even when they're full. That's good......I think.

GW take a look at this thread. It has the info DD1 was talking about.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001994;p=1

George posted a thread a few weeks ago that no one seemed interested in but me. It looked to me like TPW was starting to crawfish on some of the prior info they developed on this subject. Strange to me but it looked like other motives were involved . I think the first info (thread above) which refers to peer reviewed studies is sound. Go figure.